Browsing blogs I found this interesting question based on one of my books The Valkyries.
“We have a contract, you and I : not to win when victory is possible,” she insisted.
Have you ever made this pact?
A promise to not to win when victory is possible
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That reminds me of the Crystal merchant in the Alchemist who dint want to make more money from selling crystal because making more money meant that he would have to change his life style yet He was already happy the way he was. Talk about dreaming about going to mecca without ever wanting to make it there-Dreaming about it gave him reasons to continue living, achieving that dream would mean that he had realized his dreams hence no more reason to live. hmm
NO WAY!
GO FOR IT!
VENÇA!
FORÇA!
i think because its too much of a responsibillity to win,when we win we are different from the rest,when we choose to win(its a choice-yes),we take a lesser trodden path and that makes us an outcast….well this is when we think we can win,firstly we doubt our worth,we think,”how do i deserve to win?,i am a nobody,flawed,one who has to sort things’…. when victory is near we are blinded by fear( i have done it so many many times)fear of winning,fear of being happy…may we all release this fear!! so mote be
And if you see this question from another side? How many people know they can win and this stops them to do anything? They know that they have possibilities, knowledge strength… but they do not try because they are glad with knowing that they may win. They may have everything what they want but they are conforming them self’s only having the possibility. Telling them self’s that this is already enough. Do you thing is like it suppose to be? There is no need to try if you know you will achieve?
its not easy at all…but sometime we just let it happen by some reason or without any reason ….
This is called Humility. Knowing you can win but opting not to is not simple but an Act of Humility.
True sign of strength is not having to win just because you know you can
…for in the simple truth in knowing you can win; that is the only victory worth having…for it is never necessary to prove the truth to anyone other than our own hearts.
I think not win when it might be foolish. but must win in sports, competitions and so on. and most importantly win honestly that would not happen to us what happened to the protagonist of the novel by Paulo Coelho “The winner is one” with Igor.
More like a permanent resignation that I CANNOT win. After all, to win, to even start winning, one must first make a choice. And I got defeated trying to choose.
I made a pact years ago as a child. After I was accused of being, “too perfect” or being “good at everything” and of “leaving friends behind” I decided that being my best was not the best idea. The goal was to only do as good as your friends. And that was my pact. Don’t move forward when you can.
I grew up being accused of the same thing Princess. But sometimes, why limit yourself when you can move mountains. The question is, how will you use your “being too perfect” and “good at everything” not only for your own but for the sake of others?
If they’re true friends, they’ll value you for who you are.
Jealousy isn’t always the best! Keep at what you do best… which is being the best.
As I see it, be your best and do your best, if possible become a good leader and use all you can do perfect for the good of others, and if they don’t understand this then move to someone else who can challenge you and help you grow more.
The responses you both gave are beautiful to read and resonate with me. At this point in my life I am dealing with overcoming rejection both on giving it and receiving it.
“We have a contract, you and I : not to win when victory is possible,” she insisted.
Have you ever made this pact?
It is always important to recognize with who we are dealing a contract. If we can understand what is the last purpose of it maybe that makes possibility to brake it and to come out as a ‘winner’ or have a feeling that something is lost.Signature remains that long as we don’t delete/erase them from our soul. Good part is that we can transfer experience into Miracle. Middle point of both give strenght to go forward although human behaviour showed so many times that have no respect if someone learned from suffer. But with Change it get energy equel as good . Transformation or Change is what break all pacts we made aware or unaware of cause and consequence. Without Change we cannot improve that something was right or wrong. Something I call ‘wrong choice’ did not pass me by and yes I made impact (totaly unaware) in my spirit and suffered a great hurt. Healing (going out as a winner) took even few yrs. till I recovered. Today I can freely say: Love brought me to my knees as i wanted to give all i had even when that was not possible, and showed me the other side that defeated me almost to death, but Love was so mercyfull to save me,it rebuilted new person ready to go on with leadership, to give me a new sparkle, new life,refreshed Faith so i could go on. It made me aware of unaware consciousness and now I can tell to my friends I can recognize when ‘devil’ is ready to sneak out and his work. And am very proud that i have this chance to share this with you dear master Paulo and all good people here.
Thank you
Practically making such a promise is a sign of appreciation of the given trust. If someone loves you for example or is in some kind of close relationship with you, he reveals himself to a further extend and therefore becomes somewhat vulnerable. And making “a promise to not to win when victory is possible” is the highest appreciation you could give to that person – a promise not to speculate with the power he has given you by revealing himself to you. A promise not to hurt, expose and use his intimate secrets against him. In my opinion it’s not a rarity, yet it does not always last much longer after the end of the relationship. Once we put the ending of it and we’re no longer close to each other and the person is no longer dear to us, we tend to forget that we still have one vary valuable thing left from him – the entrusted secrets and longings.
So it takes quite a moral and nobility in a person to keep that promise forever. And also, I think that we can judge for the value of a ended relationship by our desire to keep respecting that promise. If we stop caring as soon as we’ve said goodbye to each other, that maybe what has been there between us has been shallow and has left no trace in our souls.
but what if you’ve kept those secrets after you’ve said goodbye and you still care so much for that other person when he has obviously made a promise with himself not to win when victory is possible. It’s so hard to deal with being on the other side of it. Happiness is possible for him but he won’t accept it and im finding it hard to accept not being with him because he won’t accept the victory.
sounds like a sensible pact.the person keeps to him/herself and does not get involved in winning,or its opposite (so called) losing,thus in practice,the njoys life,the sense never leaves the person.cause the person him/herself reserves that right to self,not passing it on to win/loss.so he/she can laugh even when lost,and cry even when won,or opposite,as per previous practice upon him/herself.
Well I m very late at this I know and I haven’t read the book either….
But after reading all the comments I feel that..
THE MOMENT U TOUCH UR OWN SOUL,U UNDERSTAND IT
WINNING OR LOSING MEANS NOTHING COZ U R ALREADY SATISFIED N COMPLETE
On a one-to-one situations whenever o “no” is standing in my way, I seek another way. I do not feel like changing other people’s mind set on things. I try to change my mind set on how to achieve my goal. I am usually winning through many small loses.
no , if i can win thn without hesitation … I take it
No se si lo he entendido bien, pero a mi todo esto me hace recordar a cuando te autoboicoteas. Cómo lo diría… A ver, yo tuve muchas oportunidades de ganar grandes batallas en esta vida, con una victoria casi garantizada, pero ganarlas, me iba a hacer feliz, y yo no soportaba eso. Parece absurdo, pero me sentía culpable de tener la felicidad sabiendo que mis padres no la habían conseguido. No tiene sentido, pero era así, y de tal manera, con mi inconsciente, me saboteé a mi misma hasta que conseguí ser tan desgraciada como mis padres.
Y en eso estoy… jeje, echa una auténtica perdedora, que lucha ahora por ganar pequeñas batallas y ya no lo consigue.
Así que lo que yo he aprendido, es que tan honroso es ganar como perder, pero luchando siempre al máximo por la victoria. Renunciar a ganar no beneficia a nadie, es un engaño y nadie evoluciona hacia donde tiene que llegar en verdad ni se fortalece con la lucha. Ea! he dicho! jajaja
A much simplistic view on the matter-this is what it takes for marital bliss
I’m doing it right now in my life. i had read the book before but i cant remember the sentence at all. how ever today suddenly I came across this page and realized that I’m doing exactly the same now. I donno the reason why I’m doing this thing that some call stupidity, and some bravery.
maybe cuz they broke my heart and I’m not willing to win any more wars for them. or its just stupid pride of a youth who was called Crazy and now that things have changed, seeks revenge by banning others from his talent.
now I see that, this sentence “We have a contract, you and I : not to win when victory is possible,” is not any thing complex. it doesn’t give winning, another kind of form or meaning. it is not a philosophical sentence. it doesn’t promise you any reward for doing so. it is simply this : lose when you can win. but why… I donno. maybe you are supposed to lose or simply God wants you to make a sacrifice for him. who knows… the important thing is you have to lose one or two battles when you can obviously win. and not any simple battle, but the great ones.
When I read Paulo’s books sometimes I feel even he himself isn’t sure of the meaning of what he writes. but he knows however that what ever he writes is true.
I trust him. he has done, what he says we should do…..
In this world of coward leaders, a brave one he is.
The quote implies that in order to win, another must lose. True, that is usually how the world works, but it need not be so. When those engaged in negotiation are willing to seek a higher order solution, a solution where both parties are fully satisfied with the outcome, then there are no losers. It is entirely do-able. However, win/win solutions require the parties to be completely open and honest with each other. They require too that each party take the time to fully explore, understand and relate that understanding back to the other party. In this way, empathy and trust are established, allowing both parties to feel free to explore new, synergistic possibilities that move solutions beyond the taking of positions, beyond me versus you, to a whole new level, to the realm of ‘we.’
Most of us are not yet at that level of understanding and of honesty. I like what you say and I share your opinion, so many international conflicts could be solved
Comigo aconteceu a 15 anos… consegui passar no vestibular,consegui bolsa para engº civil,arrumei um bom trabalho,fui morar com amigas em outra cidade(livre,leve)eu não caminhava…flutuava.Eu sabia qual era meu destino…onde aquela estrada iria me levar, meu futuro era certo…não haveria muitas curvas no caminho, a vitória estava a minha frente e no entanto eu não ganhei…joguei a toalha…desisti…me perdi
It reminds me of Kazuo Ishiguro’s novel “The Artist of the Floating World.” We all make pacts, most of the times for a cause that we believe in. But what is important is we continue to make more pacts to undo the mistakes that we’ve done. They make all the difference.
Más que promesa, convicción del poco sentido que tendría una victoria si en verdad queremos crecer.
(…)
Se que soy augusto.
No exijo a mi espíritu que se vindique ni que se haga comprensible.
(…)
Walt Whitman
Para qué entonces he de exigirle la victoria.
Saludos
I used to have the same pact. I have been arguing with it since it made little sense, after reading the book I was enlightened.
Truly, let God took over.
We just need to be in the battlefield.
Victory doesn’t always means winning, sometimes you will be more happy by losing. Totally agree with Fahim, because in some situation victory mean more to other people than us, so by lossing, you are actually winning.
if i am sure that victory means more to the other person then to me, i feel no harm in losing at winning stage, at young age i was too good in arm wrestling and one day my physical trainer who was respected a lot was pushed by every one at gym to arm wrestle with me we agreed on best of 3, I was unstoppable on first attempt then I looked at his face and realized, winning means more to him then me, that was the day i was beaten by my own coach only he know I let it go, the happiness I got out of my lose was so much that even after 12 years it gives me joys and simple on my face.
you was so good i think mester!
Well, I guess it depend on the person and what they value most either the victory or the pact. And also the person that u make the pact with too.
I belive to keep the relation is the real victory, we don’t know about the others background, feelings, either they been abused or abusive, the ego of the otherts and the importance for them not to be let down even in a conversation?
being socially smart skillful and caring might give the chance to win and keep the relation but the real victory is by making the others feel good and supported by you even in a conversation, what to lose if I sacrified the show off moment anfd gained this person for ever, and definately this person will understand it and feel this gift and keep it in mind, it’s all about appreciation and building trust relation, the best moment I feel happy and joy when an old friend called or send email just to talk and feel good becuase I succeeded in building this line with him/her and he, she was confident that am by her/ his side!!!
Forgive, commentary has written not in that блог
Seems the greeks considered that bread and spectacle wholly it is enough that folk was complacent and easy finished. Than hitherto our politicians use with big success.I think, this leads to дигродации of the personalities. Your novel _победитель remains odin_ good that example. Obtruded us value and notions of happiness извращенны.
I’ve learned that “to be right” or “to win” in arguments or conversations usually feels good but often costs the relationship. Anytime I catch myself in a conversation where I could be right or “win”, I remind myself that it is always better to have a relationship rather than suffer the cost of being the victor.
In order for someone to win, someone must lose- losing is usually associated with a negative feeling. If I desire a relationship with a person, then I want them to feel great around me- therefor I choose to build them up rather than bring them down
I guess I made this pact unconsciously with myself towards my son. When he was little, I let him win all the games we played together; and now that he is older, I choose not to win, usually on intellectual matters, whenever I feel that it would hurt his feelings or his self-esteem.
I guess you can make this pact towards people who are weeker than you in some way; if you are challenged, it would be harder or at least require a high level of spiritual growth..
when to make this pact … with oneself? anyone? what does “winning” mean here? could you pls give a context? maybe an example? I haven’t read Valkyries yet but can’t wait to hear your thoughts on this. peace, Sai
a real hero can think and act as promised.not for an ordinary.
in an encounter of ideas,you feel and make the other feel subtly not overtly that you can go ahead keeping head high …but with a smile by looking into his eyes ..u with draw….it requires wings to fly over pettiness.
If anyone ever tried or achived that pact…well he actually has WON!…with HimSelf….only a few rare people are capable of making that pact!
Its really inspring isnt it..?
Thanks You Paolo Coelho!:)
How appropriate that I should chance upon this quote now. ‘The Valkyries’ has a very special place in my heart. Reading parts of it reminded me of certain events in my life. It brought me face to face with my pain and my liberation.
The pact NOT to win when the chance arises is an important thing to learn. It is a very difficult thing to rein in your desire to win when the opportunity arises. It is a type of ‘giving’ not only to someone else, but also to yourself.
A beautiful quote. Thank you Paulo.
life put each one of us in a crease challenge it living the life by itself in special way & if you mad it it will be a great victory!!
Right???
“Nós temos um contrato, você e eu: não para ganhar quando a vitória é possível”, insistiu ela.
Você já fez esse pacto?
Não li Valkírias. Analisando a pergunta, respondo que.
Em meio há 1/4 de século vividos, penso que passei por muitas situações parecidas com essa. Não se trata de jogo, você não ganha ou perde apenas quando participa de alguma competição. Tens que viver com o corpo em movimento, mas com a mente centrada, em determinada situação existem pessoas que merecem muito mais a vitória, não perderás se não vencer.
Mas aprenderá.
What does Win mean when you do not know what it really is?. The sense of a victory is up to the finding of your thoughts and feelings. It may be possible that promising not to win is already a victory. Perhaps it is relative.
Nice Forum
Yes, every time a victory would cost someone else more than it would cost me (emotionally) myself. God always wins, in the end.
I’m a little late to the game. :) i just finished reading the Valkyries and felt compelled to share my discovery. As i was reading it all came back. i made that agreement with myself long ago. i sacrificed victory when i felt it leading me away from my twin sister. It was the first time guilt and shame touched my heart in the face of victory. And so i turned my back on myself and descended into the darkness, living with the abuse and the rage. My life began to spin out of control. Then when i could take no more i broke that pact. it meant i had to leave her. And she would inherit that pact from me but i could not stay. i took the risk and left.I bet everything i held dear that i deserved better. And the world conspired with me. I ended up sheltered by the kindness of two of god’s servants. People who taught me to overcome the sadness that filled me, to forgive myself and others and to reach confidently for the stars. My sister would come out of the darkness too. And after years of being apart we were reunited. This time with a love beyond victory. We encourage each other to follow our hearts together or apart. We know that we are bound by a stronger cord of unconditional love and acceptance. In many ways i still live with that struggle and find that it finds me in the oddest places. But my faith is great and my conviction strenghtened everyday. Finding this book i think comes from that. Thank you Paulo for sharing this epiphany. Thank you and your wife for your courage and your vulnerability. And thank you to all those on this list for your generosity.
algunas veces los humanos actuamos de manera egoista, movidos por sentimeientos que van mas alla de nuestro conciente o subconciente,
algunas situaciones determinan el camino a recorrer, la mente humana es capaz de crear y creer en situaciones que de alguna manera no nos conducen a ninguna parte.
necesitamos un poco de conciencia para tener el valor de apartar o en algunos casos RENUNCIAR,….. a eso le llamo libertad poder elejir y desistir de cualkier camino si en el proceso descubrimos que ya no tiene tanto sentido.
no todo el tiempo tenemos que cargar con una victoria que mas que nada solo sirve para imflar le parte negativa del ego……….
I was deeply moved when I read that phrase in the Valkyries. I could identify with it. And reading about how it came to be so, for the character in the book..I could identify with that too. This is a common human reaction to extreme pain or fear I believe. I think maybe it has something to do with the fear of separating from others (fragmentation)whether by progress or regress. If I am seen as someone who is behind, low self esteem separates me from others. In “Brida” Paulo says thoughts of being unworthy are the worst form of separation because they are self-destructive. Similarly conceit and arrogance are a form of separation because we imagine we are better than others.
Is it possible that my soul knows both union and fragmentation, yearns for the former, fears the latter; and not knowing which outcome a certain course will bring, it promises not to win because of the fear of the unknown which may lead to fragmentation?
Or is it just fear of failure, low self esteem and also fragmentation.
But wait, since both bring fragmentation it doesn’t matter which reason it is, does it?
I find that I keep sabotaging my big plans for a different life, all by myself, eventhough victory is possible. What should I do?
Hello Renuka,
The Valkyries is a fantastic book!
Cannot tell you what to do, but will share a bit in hopes that there is something here that might be useful:
For several months I was recuperating from two surgeries and two bone transplants. After a while I became increasingly impatient (do not like laying around). It was during this time, had thought about ways that I was sabotaging too, with excuses. Thinking I ‘should’ be able to conquor it all instantly. Although there was good reason to be patient and gentle. I prayed but still felt frustrated; wanting to go go go and do do do but this body and god said ‘No’ at every turn. It was scary! From there, felt betrayed by nature too (had worked hard since childhood and also traveled the world with a broken back after all!).
But I reread The Alchemist, then found this Blog, and the magic returned! (Something magical always happens when I read this book.)
And although I do not write beautifully or do all of the physical pushing, managed to find a few ways to be useful and helpful. Also was reminded that there is a difference between reasons and excuses.
Not knowing the outcome is the best part of living (to me). I hope you have a Guardian Angel. Sometimes mine has had to work very hard, but I know she doesn’t mind.
To feel fear is understandable, but comes from thoughts, (not the heart). But perhaps you can think of times that you took courage, and things turned out even better than you even dreamed?
Sometimes my dreams have taken me to far-away places, away from everything and everyone familiar. Huge wonderful adventures! Time spent in thinking/fussing about these sacrifices was much worse than the doing.
So I hope, hope, HOPE that you don’t give up!
Lots of Love to you, Jane : )
Theres no biggest good than to make mistakes, there is no biggest evil than not learning from mistakes.
it depends on what i think truly winning is.. i can lose something, but that lost could be a victory from another point of view. for example someone talked about parents who lose on purpose on their children, or people who lose to let friends win… are those truly losses? if i care about that person even if i lose i actually win because that person’s victory is a victory for me as well even if its from another point of view ;)
Its a strange question. It creates a different type of ego. Thats all. It wont carry u beyond ego. No parents worry to lose to their little children. Becoz they know for sure that they ll win.But they want to see others winning, their expressions. But their mind very well know that thay are mightier than them.Same thing happens here. Personally i felt this. I left my victories to my friends many times. They might not aware of my loosing purposefully. But it does not make any diff to my ego. When crucial time and situation happens, my ego bounces out and wins if it can. Instead of this, its better to think how to go beyond win and lose, beyond results, beyond ego, beyond action while doing action. means reaching “inaction” during action.
“We have a contract, you and I : not to win when victory is possible!
I have done this pact with myself sometime back, when I realize that winning isn’t everything in life. I also understood that there are no losers or winners as in fact everybody wins. The secret lies on how we look at things: what do we expect from them and the prize we are ready to pay – just to win.
I used to win each and every argument I came across, even if that will imply to put down the other party. But the victory was never sweet as my heart was not happy for who I was.
Then one day I felt the need to try something different, instead of letting my ego take over and win the battle using my good analytical/communication skills, I let my heart do the talk. I did not feel like a looser or a winner but instead I felt a joy I have never experience before. The emotion was such that I promise myself to always let my heart make the ultimate choice, especially when victory is involved.
loveNlight
Gabi
i too felt the same many times .i use my tongue like a double edged sword and cut all in many pieces and inwardly i rejoice in it. but ultimately i become a disappointed one .then with much difficulty , imanaged to keep silent now surprising everybody around .iam feeling happy now.
with realisation
varghese
The real victory is the one you hold within yourself.There are the steps taken,the lessons learnt on your own spiritual quest.That pact was made from the beginning.We cannot undo the things we have done,we cannot take back the words we have said and all the consequences.But the greatest victory of all is having survived it all,standing there now at that point and saying to yourself,”it just is”.Accepting that there are mysteries in life.That we cannot explain everything.We cannot explain the way we feel in the moment.This isn’t seizable.It’s abstract.Love is really a simple thing put in complex creatures.So of course it can take you to heaven and to hell.And like I said to someone dear to me today,men are made of many different facets just as the universe is made of many different doors.We have lost and we have won,we eternally will do that.But it’s a plus,it’s no regression.It’s a plus on that spiritual and personal quest.And as nothing is possible without others,I send you,all of you(whoever and whatever you are) only thanks and light.To be happy and to be well.And to love.
Love
Candie
In my perception this subject wants to pinpoint the differense between the real goal we all put in our lives towards objection.
It is true sometimes we keep follow a dream that seems so far away from our capabilities and we do not interprete correcty the signs, because there are signs not only to follow a dream but to quit too.
Are we obsessed are we egoists or simply overdoing overestimate our powers.
The line is too thin and certainly needs mental clarity to disinguish the difference.
But not to win when the victory is possible requires not only mental clarity but self control of the human nature also since we all want to win and perservance of mental and physical power, in order to use them when we are reaaly challenged.
So i thin modesty and humility are the critiria for the critical decisiion the signs will come afterwards.
The true warrior waits and gives his battles when needed not before, not after, because he is allerted but he doesn’t spend his powers in vain.
yes. that has been the whole point…
patience,
compassion,
fulfillment…
you don’t ‘Have to’ win.
una promesa de no ganar cuando la victoria es posible?
para ganar hay que perder! y si pierdo mas que lo que voy a ganr pues no vale la pena, el sacrificio, pues mi esencia no estaria al mismo nivel si tengo que dejar pedasos de mi alma en esa victoria, que solo me produce perdidas…………
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