Christian, a reader of this blog made a very interesting question: is suffering important for you to get some sort of enlightenment?
In my opinion it isn’t necessary. As a Catholic, the example of Jesus is quite telling: he traveled all his life, having dinners, meeting people and yet we remember him going though “passion” , nailed to the cross in the last days of his life.
The same applies to other avatars of humanity, such as Buddha: they were enjoying life. But for some reason the idea has gone round about suffering as a justification for us to go to heaven, or to sacrifice to others.
All my work is based in sharing the best of life and transmitting your happiness to others.
I would like then to hear your opinion on suffering and this attitude towards the spiritual path.
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Querido Paulo: El sufrimiento pertenece al pasado, quizás cuando nos liberemos de las cadenas del pasado seremos libres y veamos hacia delante a donde vamos y así no malgastaremos el tiempo perdido. Trabajaremos por un bien común, ya no andaremos perdidos. Volveremos a Jerusalém, de donde partimos un día. La Nueva Jerusalém nos espera.
Porque se acabe el sufrimiento, y el hombre sepa cual es su sitio.
Porque se acabe la ignorancia y alcanzaremos la libertad ya que dijo Jesus: “La Verdad os hará libres”.
Un beso.
i do not believe in suffering, but i have known suffering. . .and i believe all people have varying degrees of suffering and it is possible to overcome suffering. Most of us come into the world whole but in darkened awareness of our wholeness, we quickly grow a ego that wants all kinds of things to fill the holes. We are born into a body that rises and falls, lives and dies, the body is corruptible and will go through a dying process that involves suffering for many people. To deny that for ourself and especially as a judgment for others is to loose our compassion.
But having said that, i deeply believe it is possible to rise above suffering, for i have. There comes a place where as we loose attachment for the physical as being our identity. We are able to shift our identity to a truer space, and suffering turns into a pain that can more easily be released.
I have observed animals in pain. Often times veterinarians says that animals do not experience pain. I do not agree. They experience pain, but unlike us humans they do not contract and hold on to the pain. Most of our suffering comes from holding on to pain and turning it into some kind of badge or identity, expressing as enhancement or deficiency. Ugh!. . .turning into neurosis. And those too can be endearing or maddening.
For me the process of becoming has lead to transcending the attachment to suffering. I can best represent that with the simple Tao symbol. For years i danced back and forth with pain and pleasure, me not me, good and bad, all the dualities which clutch and pull one into wanting something other than how it is. When i was not accepting what is and thinking something out there could fill it or something that did not occur was the cause, that turned to suffering. But there comes a time we take responsibility and rather than projecting something unfinished or unacknowledged out there as the cause of our suffering we learn to contain it. At that place of containing something miraculous can occur instead of identifying with the yin/yang of suffering attachment/rejection, we can identify with the circle that contains everything within. At that place suffering dissolves and something else occurs; because we have learned to embrace all within, we find we can honor others and allow them to be as they are without judgment or contraction.
Just this weekend i watched the movie Heaven and Earth by Oliver Stone and at the end Le Ly is summing up her life about Vietnam and all the suffering she went through. I liked it so i took the time to transcribe it and would like to share it with you, for it addresses the issue of suffering.
” I gave my offering to all the dead of the village. I had come home, yes. But home had changed and i would always be in between South and North, East and West, peace and war, Vietnam and America. It is my fate to be in between Heaven and Earth. When we resist our fate we suffer, when we accept it we are happy. We have time and abundance and eternity to repeat our mistakes, but we need only once correct our mistakes and are at last, hear the song of enlightenment, where we break the chain of vengeance forever. In your heart you can here it now, it is the song your spirit has been singing since the moment of your birth.
If the monks are right and nothing happens without cause, then the gift of suffering is to bring us closer to God. To teach us to be strong where we are weak, to be brave when we are afraid, to be wise when we are in the midst of confusion, and to let go of that which we can no longer hold. Lasting victories are won in the heart,not on this land or that.”
Heaven and Earth
Paulo i feel this way. Suffering was once a teacher, and i gave suffering the knife time and time again she wielded it against me until one day i said, ” No more, i shall not resist, i embraced it all, come here dear suffering, for you are so afraid of dying, and suffering you are just a way to keep me separate from the most profound embrace of love and oneness with all. Come here suffering let me hold you for a moment as you disappear.”
I did not kill her or reject her, but rather i just embraced the old hag and found i was embracing the other in love which opens the door to being able to honor all.
Que sincronicidade!
Hoje pela manhã fiquei cerca de 2 horas conversando com minha companheira a respeito disso, contrapondo justamente Budismo, Cristianismo e a vida destes dois avatares que inspiraram as respectivas religiões. E chegamos à seguinte conclusão:
O sofrimento não é necessário nem desnecessário. Ele é inerente à existência. O estado Crístico ou Búdico ocorre quando se “aceita os desígneos do Pai” ou quando se “atinge o Nirvana”. O que isso significa?
Aceitar que o sofrimento existe, da mesma maneira que o prazer. Ambos são transitórios. Um não existe sem o outro.
O caminho de cada ser humano é viver da maneira mais fluida possível. Isso significa, por um lado, sofrer menos, por saber que o sofrimento é passageiro. Mas também significa se apegar menos ao prazer, pois este também passará.
Isso não significa se resignar ao seu destino e não fazer nada para mudar sua vida sofrida. Tampouco significa glorificar o sofrimento como meio de alcançar o “Reino do Pai”. Infelizmente, ao meu ver, tanto alguns Cristãos quanto alguns Budistas deixaram de seguir seus próprios caminhos para viver a “imitação de Cristo” ou a imitação de Buda. Seja martirizando-se, seja tornando-se um asceta, seja como for, estes seguidores acabam por apegar-se à história de vida de seus Líderes, ao invés de encararem o ensinamento central de ambos: Siga o Seu próprio caminho! (Não o MEU!)
Dizem os Budistas que do momento em Sidarta Gautama atingiu a Iluminação em diante, ele não se moveu. Foi o mundo que se moveu à sua volta. Os sofrimentos e prazeres deste mundo iam e vinham pelo ser em estado Búdico, mas ele permanecia centrado em seu Eu mais elevado.
Na Bíblia, em uma passagem do evangelho de São João, os Fariseus acusam Jesus de estar pecando ao realizar milagres no Sábado, o dia reservado ao Senhor [não é permitido realizar qualquer trabalho neste dia da semana, em respeito ao Mais Altíssimo, segundo a Lei Judáica]. Jesus afirma categoriamente: “Vós sois Deuses”.
Este é o meu entendimento. Somos Todos Divindades a se manifestarem. Cada um no seu próprio caminho, sem imitações nem martírio.
Um abração
I agree with Alexandra…yet we must be wise, in order to put an end on suffering, when it’s needed. We decide, when it’s the ‘right’ moment to do so…So yes, I beleive that suffering is necessary in the process of knowing oneself, knowing who we really are and not who we choose to be…And if we bear the pain till the end, the reward is mental Freedom, peace of mind. Isn’t that, that each one of us long for, being on their own spiritual path?…
I fooled myself in believing that suffering was some rites-of-passage necessary for a greater reward. It didn’t help that the church nailed into my head Romans 8:17 that says “…if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together.” So I assumed that I had to suffer in order to come to some new level of awareness and experience.
Today I am choosing to lay aside this ‘suffering’ and focus on the goodness found in my life.
I think that it is in people’s nature to be masochistic. Every average man or woman suffers every day. They can suffer from most insignificant things like…losing their home key. But…I haven’t really thought about using suffering to reach enlightenment… it doesn’t make sense to me. Suffering is suffering, when you say the word it associates to pain. I agree with you.
I had some suffering moment’s in my life.When I Understand from where my pain is coming from,suffering was disappear.
For me,understanding life without to be judge,is opposite of suffering.
We can live without suffering.
Love
Hola Paulo,
Mi actitud en la vida se basa en tres cosas:
A veces la vida es injusta.
Cambia lo que puedas.
Accepta lo que no puedes cambiar.
Si vives según estas reglas, sufres, pero es menos dura la vida. También estoy de acuerdo con la filosofía budista. Tiene todo para tener una vida buena y equilibrada.
Es también el camino de evitar los extremos.
También es aceptar lo bueno y lo malo en esta vida.
Es intentar acceptar que nuestro ego no existe.
Sin ego hay menos sufrimiento porque no hay nadie que sufra.
Es acceptar los cambios en este mundo. No atarte a nada.
Etc. etc.
La teoría es fácil, acceptar estas verdades y vivirlas requiere practicar toda una vida. O a lo mejor varias vidas…..
Un abrazo,
Mirjam
One way ticket.Enlightenment comes from Love.Love- from Suffering. Red,yellow,green!!GO..
I believe, there I have faith
I think alot of our suffering comes from the poor choices we make. We can learn from our mistakes and make better choices or we can continue suffering from remaking poor choices.
My life would have been a complete waste if suffering was a useless thing. And I didn’t choose it – it chose me. I agree with many that great suffering can bring great insight and wisdom needed to feel compassion and understanding towards others. It also depends where you are on the evolutionary ladder. I find it hard to believe that people who lead an easy life would take the necessary steps to become enlightened. I’m not sure what exactly those steps would be but I feel that there must be some in order for such great insight to take place. I believe in reincarnation so the suffering might have taken place in a previous life. Thus it may be invisible in this one.
I think it all depends on what you consider suffering. We all have our own personal definitions. Suffering for me could be a great life to another person and vice versa. It depends on where we are at in our lessons, our life, etc.
I’m living my absolute dream life and working on things that I have wanted since I was a child. This life is amazing yet it does not go without suffering and those moments are always fleeting. Some things are not my ideal, but I know it is only a matter of time before they turn into exactly what I have always wanted. I have never cried so much in all of my life, I’ve never felt so defeated and beat up. BUT..with that said, the rewards are 30 times the bad and I know it is up to me on how long I choose to look at it as ‘suffering’.
It is a choice. It has always been a choice. You choose to suffer or you choose to be happy.
Didn’t you go through much suffering in your younger years, before you became the prolific and wonderful writer you are today?
All things must be born of something and it seems like wise, inspiring, thoughtful reflections on joy, happiness, and shared love come from experiencing their opposites…
Hello all,
It is my view that suffering is inevitable, but all too often religious and political organizations seem to place this ‘emphasis’ on suffering as if to suffer here and now will grant you a reward in the afterlife (or within the society.) This view of suffering I find ignorant and rather destructive to say the least. In my view these self defeating ideas keeps one weak and immersed in fear which is the antithesis of Enlightenment/God. I believe if we, as a global tribe, do not get past this ridiculous notion the world cannot and will not evolve.
This is not to say one cannot learn and grow from said suffering, but this misery ought not to be the central focus of one’s life. If you burn your hand on the stove the hurt is there, but the knowledge not to touch it again is indispensable. Life is a verb, so this constant change from one dualistic point to another creates suffering- yet life would not be otherwise. Desire is the impetus to move from one state of being to the next and thus the space between produces ‘suffering.’ It is only a state of mind, which states that ‘this is greater than that.’
But I digress, lest I get into a huge long discussion on Eastern philosophy.
I find that riding the waves of life makes one stronger and that fully enjoy oneself, while focusing on the present, makes an individual function more easily.
Find what makes your soul truly tick. That’s what I think is important.
Thank you for posting this Paulo I think this is an important question that more individuals should be asking.
-Christian
(The infamous apparently ;) lol. )
PS- Last random thought…people appear to fear the pain of suffering (whether mental or physical) more than the actual event typically. This places us into what James Joyce called the “Paraplegia” of the soul. I feel like people should seek joy…not try to avoid suffering… My two cents.
(btw you can follow me through the weblink, blue name above :))
I feel some sort of suffering usually tends to be a catalyst for spiritual growth/evolution. Is it always 100% necessary? Couldn’t answer that question because that would imply I know everything, and really, I don’t know much.
As far as Buddha was concerned, however, he sat under a tree and vowed not to move until he had attained enlightenment. Try sitting without moving for an entire night. There is immense amounts of suffering you will pass through.
Though, I believe that I have been saved through Christ’s suffering, I don’t believe that I need to suffer as He did to enlightened my soul. The idea of how one defines suffering varies from person to person and is therefore created by oneself. I can choose to suffer from an experience just as easily as I can choose to see the glass half full or half empty. To suffer, in my mind means to carry an unpleasant burden. And because Christ has promised to carry mine, (and me)and as a result, it is unnecessary. I will admit though, it is not always easy to turn the burden of suffering over.
It depends I think on what one is suffering from.In some conditions one is said to suffer for one’s art.To tread the lives of others who have gone through a suffering can give a few rare insights.Helps to hone the awareness to what matters.I consider the book the Dumbell and the butterfly the very liberation from the Locked in sydrone from which Bauby was suffering.It was a freedom for him to comunicate his thoughts with the blinking of an eye.
Mental illness and phobias are a terrible way to suffer but sometimes after a time there is a moment where the very challenge of doping something considered normal is a lottery win feeling.
As for disability it challenges the person to turn their life around in other moe creative ways.To have gone through very bleak times it has given me insight and a very valuable gift of what life is.
To taste something sometimes you have to be hungry.
Suffering just brings further suffer!
The reason to be here on Mother Earth, is
To learn.
To hope.
To believe.
To experience all the beautyful things which are our gift from the universe (God, Goddess…).
To be grateful.
To be happy.
To love.
Simply to live our life every second!
Paulo has put it in a nutshell: “Realize the magic moment within every new day, pause for a while and think about the miracle of life, and understand that the next minute could be your last on this planet!”
Light & Love, /mik
I agree with Paulo. suffering is not essential to enlightenment.
Did Jesus and the other avatars arrive already enlightened? Or at least they attained it here on earth?
Jesus’s suffering was the result of the actions of unenlightened beings.
Now that I think of it. How can an enlightened being suffer at all?
Was Jesus’s suffering an illusion as perhaps it is, in all actuality for us?
If we unravel the events of our suffering to its origins what do we have?
—-Thought I had an opinion but all i’ve got are questions
The process of spiritual growth is supported by the rejection of fear and the embrace of unconditional love and giving.
Growth requires a willingness to deconstruct beliefs/ideas/dogmas and reconstruct.
What does the other side of spiritual growth look like? Confidence and trust in one’s intuition/light/energy from the original source. Recognizing and embracing the light is the key.
Suffering (physical, emotional, mental) is not a necessary variable to aid in the process. It appears that every organism on the planet suffers. We are finite organisms, only the light is infinite.
I agree with Paulo :-)
I don’t think suffering helps for one bit to achieve some form of enlightenment. It just makes one forget the truth of happyness that one knew as a child.
But we dó all suffer in life, whether it’s about someones entire family dying or about a dead guinee pig, we all suffer.
And all this suffering just makes us forget the simpleness of life, and makes us look around to find back the things that were once logical.
Think the key is to remain having a feeling of happyness even when sad.
Life is to be enjoyed!!!
Love, Marielle
For the enlightement,I think one need to be balanced,with serene mind,good hearted.And how showing mercy to others if we have no mercy for ourselves?
Hernan Vilar,I like your answer
suffering is neccessary.
both suffering and euphory can assure a new dimension for us, to have a brand new ‘helicopter view’. they give us an altered state of mind which is different to our everyday feeling and mood. being in that state, we can watch our live from an other aspect than usual.
and we need indeed to have a look at our life, ourselves, our goals and our acts from a different aspect sometimes. but it needs some input which inspire the spirit to exceed itself.
and those inputs are suffering and euphory.
levin from hungary
Yes,yes,yes.Thanks a lot.You are so right,God dont want us to suffer,but many people do think that way,and try to give”lessons ” to others.I thought is about the passion of Jesus Christ,but in many cultures there are practice that is meant to purify,through body pain.I disagree,till one point.Because,sometimes.as in sport,one must sweat,pass pains to arrive at performance.I think physical pain is not so hard than physichal,the pain of the soul.In some books ,as in”Eleven minutes”,you talked about orgasms through pain,a pleasure,but not the right one.I liked the way the painter took the heroine from the wrong path.
I think even severe parents,while beating children,and saying is a sign of their love,might change kids personality.They would think is that way,they deserve pain.
I hope everybody be happy and serene,because not the pain give the right pleasure.
Dear Mr. Coelho,
I am not sure which version of Catholicism you were privileged to enjoy but I can tell you, it wasn’t the same as mine. All I ever heard from the church as a child was to suffer, ‘suffer, die for the faith’. The version of Catholicism that I was given was very violent, it wasn’t unlike my secular world, nor the conditions of my families living. In my adult years I would come to call it all, slash and burn.
I equally learned as an adult, as I had in childhood, be silent. God forbid, don’t ask, don’t tell. Speak out, and see how quick the Catholic brethren or any brethren for that matter, are willing to pounce upon the you the ‘infidel’. Silence them! Perhaps because you live in another part of the world your experiences are vastly different then mine, but I live here in the USA, and that is how it is done. I listen to the news, much of the world is the same way.
I cannot speak for your experiences, but anyone who tries to deny my experience given that there are thousands and thousands, perhaps even millions, billions, and trillions who have shared a similar experience, has raped me twice.
I would as an adult turn to Protestantism. It was no better. If one didn’t confess every sin, Johnny on the spot, and that one should happen to die with unconfessed sin, that one was going to hell, no questions asked. Judgement day was not a fair trial, a balancing of scales, an opportunity to defend oneself, it was ‘go to hell’, from the man known as Jesus, The Good Shepherd, The Compassionate One and all the other names he had been given throughout the years. And there are millions of Protestants who are willing to stand behind this version of Jesus and defend his right to send you to hell, no questions asked.
I looked at Buddhism, it was an equally violent religion. Yes, I know they prefer to call themselves a philosophy, some even brag of their atheism, but that doesn’t fool me. I find the doctrines of Buddhism more insidious, deceptive then the first too.
Desire is suffering, said the Buddha his words immortalized to this very day. Those words in one form or another have found their way into every religion I have ever known.
I am not sure what is not clear about those three simple words, perhaps someone would care enlighten me.
Desire is the seed of work, therefore it is the work. It’s nature is, love or hate, sometimes both if we love to hate, are taught to hate.
Work becomes part of the plan. Work is the seed of the plan.
A plan is obtainment, thus a plan is the seed of the obtainment.
Opportunity is the fertile ground of all of the above. Opportunity wins converts, one way or another.
Desire is suffering, correct?
All of the Holy Books I have ever read are filled with violence of one form or another. Slash and burn. Racism, sexism, slavery, discrimination, poverty, ignorance, supreme-ism, elitists are all found in these books. There is no religion, none, that are innocent. They all divided to conquer, not themselves, but another. Thus books are written to justify their attack, myths are perpetuated, and they are called Holy Works.
Before anyone seeks to judge me bitter, consider my thoughts. I am not bitter. Bitter was given up many, many years ago. I am honest about my wounding. I consider sharing it an opportunity to learn, not just me but others as well.
When I was a little girl, my experiences of Catholicism were often vastly different then perhaps what the Church was attempting to convey. If so, perhaps they should have tried to be ‘unlike’ the Buddha, and speak more clear.
And yet, there are things that I remember from my background, whether from the Catholic Church, my country (secular life), or my family that I loved, cherished, and nurtured to the best of my ability.
The whole world preaches ‘humility’, and yet humility/humbleness is humiliation. Humiliation is thus prized. Humiliation is suffering because it hurts to be humiliated. Does the world prize suffering? It seems to me it does. In the Kings James text of the Holy Bible Jesus says, ‘suffer the little children to come unto me’. And so the children suffer because, as the Buddha taught, desire is suffering.
Mark 13-16
13 And they brought young children to him, that he should touch them: and his disciples rebuked those that brought them. 14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. 15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. 16 And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
We are no longer ‘sincere’ men, we are suffering men because suffering is prized the world over, and is deceptively disguised in the word humble. Arrogance is not the opposite of humble, as we have been taught, sincerity is in my mind.
sincere >adjective (sincerer, sincerest) proceeding from or characterized by genuine feelings; free from deceit.
I do sincerely hope that I have not offended anyone, it is not my intention.
And Mr. Coelho, thank you for this opportunity to share. Thank you for the opportunity to hear from others from all over the world. Thank you for the obvious thought and generosity that you put into your work each day. Thank you for welcoming me and so many others.
Hi Paulo,
I agree with you, I don’t think we are supposed to suffer.
I believe we go into suffering because of our own disconnecting from nature and God.
A couple of weeks ago I visited the exhibition on Korean art in Brussels, “The smile of Buddha”. What really stroke me was the difference in belief as taught by the Buddha, in its simplicity a path to good living leading to enlightment, and the “teaching and laws” as promoted hundreds of years later by local kings and “power people” that incorporated the idea of good and bad, suffering and punishment. It came to me as if these power lords had corrupted the authentic experience of Siddharta to make it a control system to keep people from being free and authentic and connected to their own heart, to each other and their community and environment.
What moved me: when Buddha was asked how it was to be enlightened, he answered that he saw that everything was connected.
If we would look at our every day life, and connect to each moment, not thinking, would we still suffer so much? Could we be moved by unexpected beauty, just not noticed before?
And if we connected to the people that surround us, and show we care? My guess is that we might become more peaceful to enjoy life.
Thanks for sharing part of your being and making community.
I don’t think we need to be suffering to get some sort of enlightment,but like it has been said above,suffering makes you stronger.I myself,can write good things when I’m tortured,but I also can write good things when I’m really happy.I get some enlightment in both..sometimes something hurtful comes on your way,sometimes we can make choices that will make you suffer.Suffering is part of life.We all suffer at some point but I don’t think we need to go after it..it will catch you quick.
não acho que escolhemos sofrer.
o sofrimento escolhe cada um de nós para mostrar o caminho.
não é a cruz que importa, é a maneira como a levamos.
Paulo,
I do not believe that one must suffer in life in order to grow spiritually. On the contrary, many people will be forced to doubt a higher spiritual being or force when confronted with suffering. How beautiful it must be to be able to praise a higher being or force, or whatever gives one spiritual peace, without having to suffer.
I am not sure how far and quick news travels these days, in Victoria (Australia), our fellow countrymen and women and children are homeless due to the worst bushfires this country has ever seen and over 130 people dead… I do not see how this sort of suffering is justified, or how it could feed ones spiritual path.
in case I have raised a little curiosity in you – check out this website:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/bushfires/
Much love,
Laudy
Acredito que a maioria dos sofrimentos, bem como a alegria são percepções do quê e como acontecem as coisas do dia-a-dia. As pessoas, geralmente, não querem ter consciência do caminho que escolhem e o quê esta escolha vai lhes trazer.
Não estou dizendo, porém, que o sofrimento não é legítimo. Há pessoas que só conseguem crescer passando por momentos difíceis. Quando não aceitamos a condição de Filhos de Deus, de merecedores das suas Graças e Bênçãos – e geralmente escolhemos essa condição – estamos, automaticamente, escolhendo passar por provações que trazem o sofrimento.
Há, também, os fatos inevitáveis, que provocam um crescimento forçado, que mesmo não sabendo bem como vieram temos que superá-los e, queiramos ou não, no estágio em que nos encontramos, sofremos com eles.
Beijos….
For me this is funny,because when papa Jc and i converse ,we do laugh at this particular point.Why i find funny when people try to give suffering to themselves and thinking thats their way to enlightment ,are only trying to console their mind.What made people think that,suffering given to us by God every day or in life isn’t enough?He has reserved our own set of pain,hurt tears like evryone else,and little time that we get to be happy,should be spent to be happy for this life and enjoy of course.You can be happy and still be close to God if you follow his words.Forcing oneself ,assuming oneself to be enlightened by divine with suffering might be a stereotypical thing for me.If God wants you to suffer he will take things which you will hold dearly,he will do everythign to make you suffer so why be so self conceited thinking that the thing u will suffer or want to give up in the name of God is the thing God really wants from you.Infact you might be going against his plan insome case.About jesus i wish people wouldn;t think about his suffereing on the cross over and over again,of all the the things he had done.For example,if a girl was raped and humilated in the world ,and she got same respect like Jesus would you show over and over again,her naked body?you want to remind her how she died over and over again.I try not to enter the church that hangs the cross and his body coz i know he is always beside me and i don’t feel great worshiping the scene,and try thinking or imagine urself if u had to go through the same scen you want your raped or humilated pciture hung there eventhough ur worshipped?Why people think that God don’t feel anything,why they think that God doesn;t have heart to feel like human,the reason he came here was to show that he is also like human who feels everything like us.I haven;t been to church for long time,but rather chose to spend time with Jesus alone somewhere else where we can talk about his great deed.
I do lose my temper on this part and so does papa,( Jc remains silent and we understand his silence)why people never understand the lesson and get fixed with unwanted things.
I agree with Paul and Carolena, it depends on the definition of suffering. Without the “uneasiness”, you would not question life and then you would be trapped in it. I also think that people who question life in this way, are quite sensitive, so they end up suffering more than others.
Thanks for always giving us something to chew on!
Sherry (EvolutionInConsciousness.blogspot.com)
Suffering,
Let us go first by what our renowned dictionary has to say,
1: to endure death, pain, or distress
2: to sustain loss or damage
3: to be subject to disability or handicap
etc.
My opinion on Suffering,
Suffering is another open question where this column and my thirty minutes of work on this comment or article will not be enough to all the hungry mind of PCBR (Paulo Coelho’s Blog Readers).
Anyways, Let me give a shot on “Suffering”.
Suffering inevitable, it exits and it will never fade away. As the humanity exits so is suffering. There is no remedy to it and there is no single right answer by anyone.
We are all because of Suffering, we exits because we suffer, we are living because we have to suffer. Every morning I wake up, I start my suffering and every night before I go to bed, I die. Will you belive this? Well, this is what I am.
It does not mean that, I am speaking the what Jesus spoke long time back. I am just saying that “We all are God”. We have Jesus and Mary inside us, within us. We are made up of bones, muscles and physical entiry with eternal lives of Jesus, Mary, Buddha, Allah and all.
Those people (I am sorry since I am saying them people), those were all God since they were normal human being like us. So we are too.
Christianity speaks about Jesus being the child of God, Mohammad being child of God speaks Khoran, Ram being child of God speaks Ramayan, Buddha being child of God speaks Buddhism and similar alike.
I say to all those around me, They were not a child of God but they were God and We are too. There is no child of God but only God. We all humans are God. Sufferings exits in all of us. We cannot avoid it. Sharing suffering can loosen your burden. (Well, Please disagree with me.)
Every new idea is a disagreement, Value of exisiting being is never given by us because we do not see the importance. (Why all the fuss, when Jesus was dead after being hung up for so many days in the nail pierced hands?) Why do not people realize the his value when he was alive ?
I have my own opinion which states that, “We all are God”. I agree on all the religion and respect all what they preach. You can always disagree with me on this.
Now, Let me go to the point again on Suffering-
There is nothing called “happiness, or love, or faith, or destiny or whatever…”, Everything is written well in advance when we are in Mother’s womb.
The process of writing starts from day one till nine months. These nine months are the process of writing your own scripts. The script of your life. You write it, nobody else. You do not know it, until and unless you become concisous or awake. The real awakening could take some years like 5-7 years.
When you are awake, I mean when you realize that you are alive. How? When you can see the things around you, start to remember your house, your mother, your father, your school and your religion then from that onwards your suffering starts.
Now, there is a gap between the time you are born to the time you are awake. This gap is about “adaptablity”. You are newly born and when you are newly born you want to adapt to the environment. The environment is not aboout Nature but about your home, family, religion and so on.
This is how it works. Or, atleast this is what I think.
Now, Since you have already written your script and hidden somehwere in back of your memory you do not know what you have written. It is secret script. You cannot read it all. This implies, you do not know what you have written.
Now, what your family, brother, sister, nature, country, religion will teach is observed by you. The observation will be stored in your “human brain”. The brain decides on your daily activities. The day to day work, daily hustle and bustle of your own personal lives are because of all the observation that you have done in your lives. You keep on repeating “those stuffs” which you have been influenced by or want to make some impression to.
This is how we live in Today’s world. Then suddenly, when we want to choose some career path, it does not work out. Or let us say, when you want to become Writer, you do not become writer but you end up being painter, or let us say, when you want something then that particular thing will not come in your life. (Why?)
Is this because of suffering? Yes, why not.
How?
Suffering is already written by you now, when you want to do something agaist your own script, that will not work out my dear friend.
Nobody is to blame, only you !
There is no heaven or hell. There is nothing after death. Nothing. Trust me on this. There is nothing after death because it will be same as before you were fully “awake”.
This is cyclic, We are born, we live and then we die then again after some gap, we are born again, we live and then we die. It is the cyclic process and it continues forever and ever.
Now, some of our brilliant mind will think-if we are born again then why don’t we remember anything from our past?
It is because when we write our script in Mother’s womb, we do the same when we are near the deathbed, Just before we are going to die- the before death period of “Nine Months”, we start to Erase everything that we wanted to do and did, being on this Earth.Our Consciousness, will fade away at that period.This is simple explanation.
Now, let me again look back to what Paulo’s question- Ok, I am sorry Christian question,
Is suffering important to get enlightenment ?
Well, for this I have already written one Newspaper Journal, you can find it here-
“Anyone can be a Gautam Buddha…”
http://mybheja.blogspot.com/2007/08/enlightenment.aspx
My Mother always used to say,
Sukh-ke-sub-saathi-dukh-me-na-koi. (Plenty of friends in happiness, none in Dukh or disquietude or suffering.)
I think this is the process of life, No one wants to share Suffering because you just have to suffer your own sufferings. Nobody will help you suffer your sufferings. You are the creator of your sufferings.You just have to solve your own sufferings. It is easy. You need some time and you will figure it out that, you have solved your sufferings.
By the meanwhile, you can enjoy some videos on this topic-
Spiritual fun-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azYQqzoEjgU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59bA0LBRcKY
Hippie’s fun-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0OhqCYUaRY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYDulMYVj1U
I will come back after hearing your opinion. Thank you !
Suffering? In my life, I have been friends with quite a few catholics, including my soul-mate, who reject suffering as a part of the spiritual path.
In their childhoods they were threatened constantly with suffering – by the church – of hell-fire, of damnation, of castigation, and punishments for their “sins”.
But suffering is central to the spiritual path, and obsession with it is no better than denial of it.
There is “enlightening” suffering and “unbearable, unGodly” suffering.
“enlightened” suffering enables us to identify our ego, and our shadow, and so work towards increasing the spiritual light within us.
“Unbearable” suffering is that of a terrible desease, or unbearable physical pain, where life becomes a living hell.
In this type of suffering, we need to consider treating human beings as well as we do animals and our pets, when we deliver them from this agony with a merciful death.
But the first type of suffering is fundamental to awaken us to our egocentricity, which would flow unchecked without it.
Blessings.
Karen
Não acho que a dor seja necessaria, mas acho que ela acaba sendo inevitavel num momento de nossa vida. Certas situações em que nos sentimos sem chão, sem saida, sem vida. A psicologia mesmo classifica a depressão não sendo inteiramente destrutiva, ja que ela possui seu lado positivo, que é o momento de se recolher e poder cicatrizar a dor, absorver, aceitar e aderir os aprendizados que o motivo da situação trouxe. Na minha humilde experência, eu tento sempre na minha vida ver o lado bom de cada situação, mesmo as mais dificeis. Acredito que por maior que seja o sofrimento de uma pessoa, ela vai ter “outra visão” depois de um determinado tempo, e isto vai trazer de alguma forma um grande e essencial aprendizado pra sua vida. As vezes oque um certo momento qualificamos como a pior coisa que nos aconteceu, depois de um tempo vemos que foi uma das melhores coisas que poderiam ter acontecido em nossa vida. Acho importante nestes momentos dificeis, guardarmos nossa fé, independente de nossa religião. Pois o fato que “Deus escreve certo por linhas tortas” pode não se mostrar evidente por um momento, mas, algum tempo depois, teremos outro significado para este acontecimento que nos gerou dor.
Acho importante também avaliarmos a raiz desta dor, se esta sendo causada pela vida ou por uma circunstância externa, ou se se trata de algo que a causa vem de nos mesmos. Logicamente que a vida seria muito melhor sem dor nenhuma, mas isso é impossivel, ao meu ver, e se a dor existe, nega-la pode tornar a situação ainda mais dificil. O que eu considero mais importante, em todo caso, é, por maior que seja nossa dor, que possamos guardar nossa fé, pois acredito que depois de toda tempestade sempre vem a bonança!
Suffering can be dealt with in various ways. Suffering can be overwhelming but can also a catalyst for inner strength and complete change.
Over the last year, in my darkest times, when the past was too painful to reflect on, and the future inconceivable, my survival mechanism was to live minute to minute. Initially I shut out everything external, because I couln’t face it. My soul was in a fetal position inside a hard shell, a seed. Gradually and very unexpectedly, I felt moments of awakening, moments of joy, like droplets of golden elixar. The warmth from the sun, the smell of rain. I would cry as I felt emotion I had estranged myself from. I’d then feel guilty about feeling good, and again I would suffer, but the sunlight had been let in, and I, without any control began to respond. I drank and experienced every drop of that golden elixer, as a profound blessing, of the extroardinary capacity to endure and overcome suffering. From those moments of awareness I became determined to journey through my suffering in a positive way. There lies the lesson in suffering. We can come through it negatively or we can come through it positively.
Do we need suffering to become enlightened? I don’t know. I do know that it’s suffering that causes us to question, to search, to change.
My thoughts on suffering are:
Some may call it sacrificing
Some may call it punishment for sins.
I believe that Jesus was trying to teach others about the joy in life and I believe that when he died on the cross it was a symbolism saying that he died for the sins of the world so we wouldn’t have to suffer or sacrifice…this lets me know that I am liberated by accepting this gift. This morning I realized just because a situation may occur in my life it doesn’t have to steal my joy, and instantly I began to smile. Any suffering that I may find myself in I know now that it is self inflicted mentally, maybe I am going through a life lesson, but at the same time it is about liberating myself mentally finding that strength that is inside to learn about what life is trying to teach me, asking for that new pair of eyes to see the trial from a different perspective. I use to look at those lessons as suffering, now I realize it is only a lesson and it doesn’t have to steal my joy. I’ve learned to ask my tutor (the Holy Spirit) for help during these lessons when it gets difficult; Ask and you shall receive, believe and you will see. I agree with Paulo it is about transmitting your happiness to others. This morning a friend asked me “Marie do you know what it is like to give someone hope”? I told him no, I’m not sure if I ever gave anyone hope, but I know what it feels like to be given hope, and I would like to know what it feels like to give it to others, because everything is a cycle.
Ha ha that old chestnut, having been in the nursing profession for a number of years and payed close attention to peoples suffering both physical and mental. We have reached a strange juncture in life where it is almost deemed neccessary for progression – which begs the question were i to be marrooned on a desert island from birth with nothing but the jollies of life as my constant companion would i indeed be a mindless empty bucket of shallow triviality. Indeed not, suffering is indeed part of life but hey ho it doesn’t distinguish – it is no respecter of persons. I find it quite irksome that it can somehow be the measure of a person i.e what a great magi (for want of a better word) he was/is, he suffered so. People suffer you don’t have to look far for that, its how you respond to it and indeed if we responded to it in the correct manner then perhaps suffering would not be suffering. But alas i may be wrong.
Suffering is an emotion. Like all emotions, we can choose to hang onto them or we can feel the full force of it for a moment and then let it go. (I am a big fan of The Sedona Method)
I choose the latter and prefer to be pro-active in my life. Suffering is such a waste of time as it takes away so much from living. It doesn’t mean that you don’t experience pain, it just means that you don’t hang onto it. You learn from it instead and move forward.
In Buddhism, one of the first insights of Buddha was that life is dukkha. Dukkha is sometimes translated as ‘suffering’ in English; however, this is not a very accurate translation of the term. It would be better to translate as ‘disquietude’ or ‘uneasiness’ but not full blown suffering. Many people don’t understand Buddhist teaching becasue they think well ‘I am not suffering.’ This may be true, but all of us suffer from this feeling of uneasiness where we feel things aren’t quite right. Coming to accept this is the fundamental step towards awakening to the clear and present reality that shines forth at every moment.
Don Paulo,
When was the last time we loved without suffering?
Even our mothers suffer before they give birth to their ultimate joy… “us”
Suffering grows like all living things, strong and beautiful..
Actually it is another hand of balance in life..
Where there is life there is death,
where there is joy there is suffering.
We shall never understand the meaning of love and joy without suffering, for everything in this life is inked together…
As a Catholic, I’ve learned to pray for God when I’m happy not only when I’m suffering, and here lies their beauty, for they will teach us how to appreciate each one and to be prepared for what’s next.. After all, aren’t we warriors by different means?
Leopold,
Sinceramente acho o sofrimento muito chato, sem beleza.
Não acho que com sofrimento as pessoas aprendam algo bom, muito pelo contrário. Na minha opinião, o sofrimento desperta sentimentos de tristeza que não trazem luz nenhuma.
Quando todos teem pensamentos e atitudes boas, o sofrimento não existe e assim sendo todos os lados se beneficiam.
1 beijo,
Mari Raphael.
Olá Paulo, bom dia!
Bom, eu concordo com você, porém infelizmente existem muitas distorções e manipulações, como voce bem sabe, em toda a história. Eu acredito que as pessoas ou se alinham ao caminho espiritual pelo amor, que seria o caso desses mestres que passaram suas vidas de forma bem aventurada, aproveitando a vida, ou se alinham ao caminho espiritual pela dor, que seria o caso, ou ao menos eu gostaria que fosse, de pessoas ruins, pessoas que cometem graves erros, negligenciam o mistério da vida, Deus ou simplesmente não tem um bom coração. Acho que os dois caminho lhe levam a espiritualidade, porém eu gostaria de pensar que o sofrimento seria necessario apenas para os negligentes, e et… porém nao sei se isso é verdade. Gosto muito de escrever em seu blog,
Abraços grandes!
I would love to agree with you, but i believe that suffering in life is unavoidable, and neccessary. My experience with people has shown that too many of us too easily take things for granted, even children. Jesus maybe had dinners but he also traveled, and went on pilgrmages right?
perhaps he could have been enjoying wine and women instead, but he chose to discover as well, now i think its a matter of defining suffering. Suffering not in the sense of inflicting pain on oneself, but not always choosing the easiest path.
There is some truth in the saying: no pain no gain.
When we suffer, the value of things and people become clear to us.
Paulo,
We desire therefore we are.
We desire therefore we suffer.
Please note the origin of the word desire as in dictionary.com:
Origin:
1635–45; < L dēsīderātus (ptp. of dēsīderāre to long for, require), equiv. to dē- de- + sīder- (s. of sīdus) heavenly body, constellation + -ātus -ate 1
So, to desire would in fact mean that we long for somethign heavenly (sider), but in fact we try over and over to satisfy this quest with earthly pleasures. Then we suffer. Then we need more. Then we will need to reconsider.
When we finally know that we are in the All and the Universe is mental (otherwise the All would die one day), then we won’t suffer, because there is nothing we won’t have.
Hernán Vilar
I would say that sometimes we deliberately try justifying suffering. it is more like a consolation to our own self…where we reason that suffering is for our own good.
I find that there’s some element of truth in this statement too…
If we don’t suffer, our minds are content and carefree.
This doesn’t give the mind a reason to ponder over life.
But it is when we suffer, we contemplate over life, trying to search some answers whose questions are not known yet…and in the end we embark upon a realization. It is this realization which gives us a new color to our whole personality and makes us a better or worse human being. Now again if we evolve as better than what we were, we gain and are better equipped to deal with stringent situations in future. And if we deteriorate, we fall back and have to start the process all over again.
Is suffering important for me to get some sort of enlightenment-hmmmm. No; but I believe suffering has brought me to enlightenment sooner then if I had not experienced suffering. My seeking for internal healing from over 20 years of suffering has brought me to enlightenment. I do not regret any difficult situation in my life because I would not be the woman I am today. Now if I did not experience any suffering would I be searching for enlightenment? I do not believe so. I would think why do I need enlightenment? I would be content in the life that I have and why change something that is not broken. I believe people search for enlightenment during difficulties in their lives but when things are going well it is not sought after. I do believe suffer expedites reaching enlightenment but is not a requirement. My wounds from the first 21 years of life are asking for enlightenment which is healing my soul. Therefore, all I can say from my experience is that years of suffering brought me to enlightenment.
No you do not have to go throgh suffering to reach a higher dimention ore enlightment, but i do belive that if you go throu alot of pain and sicknes and suffering, you get stronger, and can give more of your selves. You will love life more and be more grateful to the fact that you are alive!But a person can choose to be bitter, ore let all things life brings you make you stronger. I hope for all a good new week and a happy day!. love from Norway
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