Guilt and forgiveness – Part II

Paulo Coelho

Here is a beautiful story that illustrates precisely what I mean:

When he was small, Cosroes had a teacher who helped him to become an outstanding student in all his subjects. One afternoon, the teacher punished him severely, apparently for no reason.

Years later, Cosroes acceded to the throne. One of his first actions was to summon his former schoolmaster and demand an explanation for the injustice he had committed.

‘Why did you punish me when I had done nothing wrong?’ he asked.

‘When I saw how intelligent you were, I knew at once that you would inherit the throne from your father,’ replied his teacher. ‘And so I decided to show you how injustice can mark a man for life. Now that you know that,’ the teacher went on, ‘I hope you will never punish another person without good reason.’

This reminds me too of a conversation I had over supper once in Kyoto. The Korean teacher Tae-Chang Kim was talking about the differences between Western thought and Eastern thought.

‘Both our civilisations have a golden rule. In the West, you say: ‘Do as you would be done by.’ This means that a loving person establishes a model of happiness which he tries to impose on all those he meets.

The golden rule in the East appears to be almost the same: ‘Never do to others what you would not want done to you.’ This is based on an understanding of all the things that make us unhappy, including having to obey a model of happiness imposed on us by others – and that makes all the difference.

In order to improve the world, we do not impose our own way of showing our love, we try instead to avoid making others suffer.’

So show respect and care when dealing with your fellow man. Jesus said: ‘You shall know them by their fruits.’ And old Arab proverb says: ‘God judges the tree by its fruits, not by its roots.’ And according to a popular proverb: ‘The beater forgets the beating, the beaten never do.’

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Comments

  1. pragya says:

    Its so easy to forgive someone who did not do anything wrong intentionally …..knowing that his deed was wrong and not that person….and if he gets a chance ,ll go back and erase that mistake completely…its enough to forgive him….we can not always forgive …..somtimes forgiving makes you the culprit…
    Lord Ram did not forgive RAVAN …so did Krishna …..yeh they gave one chance to their enemies …to come back on the right track……So if Lords can not forgive
    when they were the part of past..more peaceful than today..how come we forgive everyone…..
    My maid has a horrible husband.He used to beat her…take all her money …do nothing but drink and abuse….It kept going till her kids were small…they grew older …more mature..and understood whats happening ….It was wrong…The mother was’nt able to forgive her husband either …but her love for him was much more strong ..plus she thought ..without his presence in her life..this cruel socity ll not let her live with dignity…And if she leaves him ..one day she might not be able to explain her kids ..why she did so…..so she kept all her pain within the limits of her fear ….But Her children did not forgive him….They said if we ll forgive him…we ll never ever be able to face ourself in front of their mother…..so moral of the story is ..we can not always behave exactly the same way we want to be treated…..Those kids through their father away from their lives…..who wants to be treated like that …….but they were right ..no one can blame them…and no one can understand their pain ..their guilt…..guilt of being a bad child…..whether they did it or not……they were and will always be bad son /daughter….If they behaved the way this society rule book says …with their father ..they were bad to her mother ……Rather they followed rule book of their senses ..and became bad to their father………They did not forgive him…..and lived forever with this guilt……But they gave so many chances to the jerk ..before doing this..for me they are no less than Lord Ram ….

  2. I really like do onto others as they would like you to do onto them. One of the problems I see is that we think others think like us, that they want what we want. It is all so thoughtful to think about what they would like and do that. xoxo

  3. bAREthoughs says:

    I try to be a nice man, but it very hard to tell somebody what I mean trying not become to famous. I have three children that can be harmed, that makes me confused. So I have started to write songs instead, like Leonard Cohen did :D But I want to be a photographer and writer, not an musician.

    Title Hugs – musictones like Sing sing sing or jazz, blues, rock or whatever…musican fix it :D

    Hugs Hugs Hugs

    Hugs is better than Drugs
    Hugs is better than beers in Mugs
    Hugs is better than liquor in Mugs

    Hugs hugs hugs

    Hugs is better than Money
    Hugs is better than Stress
    Hugs is better than Pollution

    Hugs Hugs Hugs

    Hugs is better than Power
    Hugs is better than Envy
    Hugs is better than Sadness

    Hugs Hugs Hugs

    Hugs is just Funny
    Hugs is what we Feel
    Hugs is Happiness

    Hugs Hugs Hugs

    Hugs is Positive
    Hugs is Great
    Hugs is Friendship

    Hugs Hugs Hugs

    ©2009 bAREthoughts

    This material is protected by copyright law. Without explicit authorization, reproduction is only allowed in so far as it is permitted by law or by agreement with a collecting society.

  4. Anca says:

    Dear Ana M

    The Paulo Coelho universe is not without irony… I was going trough the same issue of forgiving myself the day before.
    I wish I’d knew an easy solution… or even a complicated one, I wish I could say I know how, but every time I start thinking an answer to that question I feel fake, a hypocryte, for it’s easy to put words on a screen, but much harder to achieve alchemy of a heart.

    I think self-guilt comes from knowing you’ve done something wrong, either you’ve hurt someone or yourself (in my case, I’ve done nothing wrong, but that does not excuse the fact that I’ve done NOTHING, and that … I cannot seem to find a way to forgive myself for that).

    As for my parents, I’ve seen in them remorse, especially when I don’t turn out to be the dream girl that they want, or when I hit myself upon facts of life. to me it helps talking things out in light, it is a healing process, to them my words are like knives accusing of bad parenthood. I realized that in time, even if it was not my intention to hurt them. It must hurt for a parent to see its child in pain, going trough things you would never wish your child to go trough, and … feeling you’ve failed them as a parent. I don’t know how to explain… but in the last two years I’ve started healing faster, holding myself stronger, getting up when I fall, and loving them back in spite of their moods or flaws. Maybe I am too harsh on myself, but I tried as much as can not to be ‘the victim’, sometimes people love victimizing themselves so the other feels guilty by the harm inflicted, and you give into yourself, you give into whatever is asked of you so to make the other feel better and release your guilt. You may not know is an induced guilt…I don’t operate that way… well, in these two years I’ve seen changes in them i didn’t see before: they are more supportive of me, and when they are not i confront them and ask them to be, and tell them how i want them to support me, they’ve started to accept my gifts of love (trips, dine-outs, groceries every now and than.. but also small affections we didn’t have between us before), and…most amazing, when I fall or go trough a hard time, they feel the pain with me, but they don’t say phrases blaming themselves or don’t torture themselves over that. the pain may still be there, but they seem more… relieved.
    I don’t think that’s an universal key, but in the case of my parents… when i managed to change my own view and act on life, it changed the broken chain of interactions between us, and …in time… i think it’s helping them realize that things are ok, and …forgive themselves.

    Maybe that’s all guilt is…fear that a past damage is bigger in present than it really is, and by holding onto it we’re dragging it into the present, instead of allowing ourselves to create and change this present into all we imagine it can be. Maybe that’s all it is, to change towards better (as Paul from Austria mentioned, and Liina, Thelma), not to make up for pain, but to simply stop it, and allow ourselves to become better as humans.

    I don’t know if this sharing helps or not… I think I’m good with others, but I cannot figure myself.

    ~*~

    Thank you to all who share on this blog, may you recognize the many blessings within you!

    Anca

  5. Dear Susan,

    no, that is not what I said, I never said anything about forgiveness and the teacher. I was basing my premise on the idea that an outstanding student in all subjects doesn’t have much time for anything else except studying, so therefore he never did anything wrong to give the teacher reason for punishment.

    So when you said something in lines of; kids almost always do wrong, I said I agree, but that wasn’t given in the story. We are talking about the story are we not?

    Unless you are talking about something else which I have no idea about, and perhaps I’m sensing that you are trying to say something else through your writing but forgive me for I am not understanding!

    Anyways, I’ve been sick for the past couple of days, and the pressure in my sinuses and my head is excruciating, and it’s hard to concentrate right now.

    I will say though, most things in life are not easy, not easy at all, everything takes work and effort, even forgiveness.

    Sending you my love!
    kisses.

  6. Pandora says:

    Accept
    Bless
    and
    Release …..

    With Love

    (and kisses to the wind)

  7. susan says:

    Carolena,

    Yes, I think I see what you are attempting to say. You are suggesting that the teacher himself deserves forgiveness because he was only repeating what he had learned, correct? In other words, the teacher had a good reason to punish the boy, and that good reason was because this is what he had been taught, this was all he knew? What were the teachers circumstances when he was a little boy? Can we expect anything different? Do we destroy the man, and give no consideration to the little boy inside the man?

    I understand that position and have struggled with it myself. Frankly, Carolena I do not think that any of our religions/philosophies, or sciences have given us an appropriate understanding of what forgiveness is, how to do it, or achieve it for the betterment of each party.

    Two traditional concepts utilized by mankind are karma, and it’s partner reaping what one sows. Each hope that another receives punishment. Each invokes the power of the Gods/God to administer punishment on the offender to the joy of the offended. Each are powerful aphrodisiacs to assuage our passions.

    To deny that I have not felt this way myself would be to lie. I sure have felt this way. And I sure have felt that I had darned good reason to feel so, but do I? Many would agree with me that I do. They would encourage it, no more nor less then they have done so for thousands of years.

    And so rewarded, I believe so, feel so. Then comes the guilt, because my rational mind says no. And so I continue on my quest to know what forgiveness means so that I can forgive and do so appropriately.

    Did you notice that I gave the teacher back to himself, so to speak. Did you notice that he heals himself, and that is why he is not heard from no more. He reinvents himself from his own heritage, because there are those within his heritage who have healed themselves. As such they know how to heal his kind because it sprang of from their heritage.

    Did you notice that I gave myself a voice, something that I/women haven’t had in thousands of years. I, as a woman reinvent myself from my heritage because there are those in my heritage who have healed themselves.

    I am a mother. I have four children, but raised five ( a younger sister). Times were not always easy. In Guilt and Forgiveness – Part I, Mr. Coelho writes; ‘My boy only behaved foolishly because he got into bad company’. I believe that to be often true.

    Many mothers feel that way, but let them say it, and watch the world pounce upon them. Mothers will even do it to each other, but they want their child excused with the same excuse.

    I don’t necessarily think it is an excuse, though I recognize that there is some validity there. Many mothers struggle against great societal burdens and pressures to raise their children.

    I have two daughters. One has children the other not. The one who does not have children has been very good to her sisters children. She is a wonderful aunt. The children adore her. Having said that, she can be critical of her sister’s mothering. One day I sat her down and said, until you have children of your own, you will never know just how hard it is to be a mother. This is your sister, love and support her right to mother her children

    Science claims that the opposite of forgiveness is revenge. How did they come to that conclusion? Perhaps by observation because that is how science determines things.

    Religion on the other hand promotes suffering as a means to learning how to forgive, and how to be good. And so the same mistakes are made over and over and over. Suffer.

    I have decided to take a different approach by analyzing the word; forgive. I have only just realized this and so my journey begins.

    Fore give? First give. Give what? Forgiveness, in my opinion is a giving and a taking back, not revenge, nor servitude, nor denial. Forgiveness is not insanity.

    I won’t be a slave to forgiveness, nor will I deny my hurt, nor the hurt of the offender, even if the offender doesn’t recognize his/her own hurt. I will attempt to understand, but it is my first responsibility to understand and heal myself. I will not seek revenge, but I won’t deny myself justice if the secular law provides for such opportunity. I won’t seek justice for every little offence, becoming a petty harbinger of prosecution, but only those offences that have caused me injury, or those offences that I perceive are causing another injury.

    In other words if I see someone beating another, or myself I will rely on the secular law because of it’s rationalism to relieve the injured of further injury. That is why the law exists and that is why it must exist, to protect it’s citizens from further harm, deterioration of the whole.

    If corruption, discrimination, injustice exists within the law, I will work to change it. I trust that something exists greater then anyone of us that is working to do the same. I call that something God, and I trust that God is not a petty harbinger of prosecution, and that is why diversity exists amongst mankind, to prevent injustice in our quest to understand God.

    I hope this isn’t too long. And again, thank you for writing. I sincerely send you hoped for happiness.

  8. Thank you Susan,

    You said that I said, ‘what if the boy went on for the rest of his life being just, and not hurting anyone, then he was punished for nothing’.

    And you say ‘But I would like to say that the chances of that happening, him being just, and never hurting anyone, are not very good. Little boys have a difficult time processing the violence that occurs to them and around them. So do little girls.’

    Then I say that you are right, and if the original story reflected that, the teacher would not need to punish for no reason, when he punished, he had a good reason and the boy learned his mistake without holding on to the hurt.

    That’s what I mean, it’s relative to the circumstances and story.

    Thank you for writing as well and sharing your creative stories.
    I indeed do love them very much! They are life, little balls of love!

    Kisses.

  9. ESCABROSO Y MUY TURBIO says:

    No es una bella historia, es una historia cruel: parecida a esta que me acabo de inventar:

    Para que el alumno aprenda a respetar a los humanos y no cometer injusticias, el profesor mata a un hermano del alumno.

    Moraleja del profesor:

    ¿Duele?
    ¿Duele mucho?
    ¿Sí? ¿Verdad?

    Bien, ahora has aprendido la lección: quería que la aprendieras porque vas a ser rey:

    No hay que matar.

    Esto es lo más turbio y escabroso que has escrito Paulo.

  10. Liina.L says:

    If You have the possibility, somehow. Please, watch a movie called ‘Pianist’. It’s about World War 2, life though the eyes of a gifted pianist from Poland.

    This may let You see the world though another point of view and appreaciate what we take for granted. Life.

    Love,
    L.L.

  11. Liina.L says:

    Zero privacy… *sigh*

  12. Liina.L says:

    Annie: I see Your thought. And I see where it is coming from. I have been in this situation as well, I have to admit. As (still) a young person, (as most of us are, here, actually :)) there is a need to figure life out. For that we try to look for reasons, find the possibilities to understand better, live better, be better…

    Annie – I have been the “black sheep” in the family, I can say, I am different. And maybe I wasn’t as my parents expected to be, at least not at that time when I was even younger. I can’t say anything in my advantage, because I wasn’t that good in anything, actually… I just… passed through life.

    I, one day in the past, was someone ‘who they did the bad to’. It’s very hard to admit it, but this happened. If You know what I mean. I was around 9-10 years old For about 10 years I erased it from my mind and I didn’t evern remember it… although I was depressed in those whole 10 years and I did not understand why. Then, I went to the university and something happened that made me open my eyes. And I had a big shock wave hitting me – basically I had been protecting myself from the bad thing and I could of been diagnosed with something what they call ‘posttraumatic syndrome’. Basically it’s something when You live through a traumatic happening, and You block it out of Your mind, and it can be blocked from one month, to several years. And this is what happened to me. Since I entered the university, I had to take a class ‘clinical psychology’ and there they introduced us to different types of psychological symptoms and diseases. And during this class, I suddenly remembered what had happened to me. That was also the time when I started to deal with my ‘problem’… started to jump in the river, so to say. This was in about 2004. In about 2005 I was, by “an accident” introduced to Paulos works, and this helped me genuinely (as I believed it has helped thousands, and maybe millions of people).

    But to the forgiving part. I, a year ago, went to a party, where I knew these people would be, who did this to me. And I wanted to confront them the last time, to see, if they regret what they did. I went there – and to my disturbance, they didn’t. And in fact, one of them came up to me, looked into my eyes, smiled widely and shook my hand. I couldn’t of believe this hypocrisy… and the fact that this was happening to me. After I was able to leave this place, I fell in the “black hole” again… for a while, and started wondering, if this life that I’m living is worth living it.
    But there the miracles started to happen and I started to see the better side to the world… and I, somehow managed to start forgiving them. I am not sure I am there yet…I know I am on the way to that, but only little by little I am feeling that I may actually be able to do this, fully, one day. Maybe?! This is something, I won’t be able to forget. Maybe except if I lost my memory or something else. But otherwise… I know I am living with this, and it will probably come to my mind now and then.

    I know, Annie, that it’s hard to see the possibility how to forgive… but it is possible. It comes inside of You. With working with Yourself, it is possible. Some may fake it… but if You truly want to come over a tragedy, You have to be able to let it go in a way.

    I have accepted this thing that happened to me. I know that this has, in some way, made me into what I am… but as we spoke of transformations – these are possible. And forgiving, being able to forgive, is also one possibility of a transformation.

    I hope You will have strenght, boldness and security in Yourself one day to achieve that.

    I am still not sure, if I should post this, but I guess it’s worth the risk. After all, maybe it can be a source of hope, to some one. Possibly for You too, Annie. Don’t give up – the life is what You make it with what You got, dear. We don’t have the same assets & experiences, but we can still make our own lives and ‘swim in the river’. If we decide so. I wish You the boldness to do that, Annie. Sending You a warm hug, if needed.

    With all my heart and love,
    and my another confession,
    Liina L.

  13. Mirela Baron says:

    Indeed, in the most cases it needs three or four genrationes,to complete and to end what the first one gaves as informationes and teachis(lessons) as inherit.

    Love,
    Mirela(the woman in elevator)

  14. THELMA says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS5LRRsNYZk&feature=related
    The Consolation by …Franz Liszt.
    LOVE,
    Thelma

  15. THELMA says:

    Thank you Paulo Coelho and thank you all.

    In my life I have been many times offended, hurt, disappointed, frustrated. They say, that when you grow older you are not so vulnerable and sensitive. I doubt it. At least for me this does not apply. In the contrary growing older and living more consciously, my standards have changed. I need and require a wiser and more sensitive behaviour from others and from… myself too. I have not formed a ‘harder defence’ towards ‘other’s arrows. I feel my vulnerability has grown. I cannot understand ‘why’ we, human beings, instead of becoming all LOVE, we behave like … selfish monsters. ‘Your … death is my … life’ has become the motto, in everything. I have sensed it and tasted it since I stepped into the so-called ‘image of society’ that it called the school. Jealousy, envy, gossips, evil. I could not understand why … ‘friends’ could ever feel and act this way. Instead of fighting back I used to ..withdraw and find shelter into my .. shell and this was not that I was a cowardice!! I was not interested in fighting under those evil terms. I was/am not interested. I just carry on my way with dignity. I would not accept a love, a position or anything that I may have earned through a .. dirty war. This is always my attitude in life.

    I do not care, if those who have hurt me or disappointed me are plain people who happened to be on my way. They are what they are and with their actions I am sure that they form their own … Karma. Their bad and hurtfull actions will be …returned to their lives ‘seven times’ stronger. Their punishement through Divine .. judgement. I forgive them because they act in their.. ignorance. By desiring to take … revenge we poison our minds and lives, with hate. I prefer to forget them….

    The difficult act for me is to be able to forgive those that I have given my love, my life and my devotion. I feel … numb and .. astonished!! I do not understand and I cannot … forget. I am not the same again. Something in my heart breaks and … bleeds.. Then it becomes a …. Vitriol and the only way to find … consolation is …. dreaming.
    LOVE,
    Thelma

  16. Ana M says:

    Dear Anca,

    What about forgiving yourself? I believe it’s necessary to forgive yourself first in order to be able to forgive others… How can we forgive ourselves?
    I mean, you can forgive your parents for the harm they’ve done to you, but will they be able to forgive themselves? How can we do that? I think it’s even harder to forgive ourselves because its more difficult to face our own mistakes than facing other’s.
    Love..
    Ana

  17. susan says:

    Dear Carolena Sabah,

    First, that is a beautiful name. Melodic. I am glad that you like what I wrote. It is a silly habit of mine since childhood, to take something written and form it into my own thoughts from my own experiences.

    You said, ‘what if the boy went on for the rest of his life being just, and not hurting anyone, then he was punished for nothing’. But I would like to say that the chances of that happening, him being just, and never hurting anyone, are not very good. Little boys have a difficult time processing the violence that occurs to them and around them. So do little girls.

    I tend of late to be sensitive to the phrase, it’s all relative, having used it myself. That is until I realized that relativity is based on opinion of all things. As, the story shows opinion are formed from a variety of sources, not all just. And so to add a sense of humor to the discussion, they say you can’t teach an old dog new tricks, but at 57, I’m trying, so please be patient. Lol

    Thank you for writing. Great happiness to you and those 2 little ones. Don’t let them give you too hard a time…………..you are correct, children are not perfect, but they sure are wonderful. I bet you love them.

  18. susan says:

    And thus the teacher found himself once again called unto the throne. However this time there sat a Man and a Woman on the throne. They asked the teacher, when we were children you beat us when we had done nothing. We suffered at your hand, and we want to know why?

    Of course the teacher, experienced in the matter of these things, gave his usual reply. And like all the Kings before, the Man and the Woman called for the guards, and had the teacher sent to prison.

    The teacher shrugged, he knew the game.

    And so at last he found himself before the doors. He started past the first gate when suddenly he noticed that there was a change in the guard. There were two of them. The same male guard stood at attention guarding the gate, and beside him stood a woman, she too dressed as a guard.

    ‘What is this’, he pondered, ‘since equal opportunity, these women are everywhere.’

    He had always wondered about this place. He peered once more to the fountain that sat just beyond it’s gate. It was certainly beautiful, and it’s floors still gleamed with gold. His best friends as well as he would surely like to quench their thirst. And so, just in case there had been a change in rules he approached the guards.

    Once again he was told that no animals were allowed in. And so he continued on his way. Until at last he came unto the second door. Two guards stood erect, one a male and one a female.

    ‘Hmm’, he thought to himself, ‘what is this’? All the times that he had come this way before the guard had been sleeping at the gate.

    ‘These women will be the end of us yet’ he thought to himself, then approached the guards.

    ‘May I and my animals enter to drink’, he asked

    ‘Of course, the woman replied, ‘we are waiting for all those who come with their animals, so that they can drink’.

    ‘Thank you’, the teacher replied adding, ‘I see there are still not very friendly at the first gate’.

    ‘No, they are not’, said the guard, ‘but you have had many opportunities, to take chances, risks’.

    ‘Yes, I have’ said the teacher. ‘And things have worked out thus far’.

    And he continued on, past the guards, down the old traveled path to the door.

    As he approached the door swung open.

    My, my, how things have changed, he thought to himself. And he hurried forward to quench his thirst.

    Two guards stood on the other side of the door. The teacher was seized and led away, never to hurt the children no more.

    He was never heard from again.

    And so at last, the children of the earth began to rise together from the ashes of their despair equal in their desire and willingness to leave behind the harsh teachings that had led to their devastation, pain and destruction. New teachers arose from the very roots of their tree, their fruit transformed, edible, delightful. They wanted peace, and they want their piece of the promise, so that they might heal themselves and their children, and their children’s children………….

    This is how I reinvent myself. I have done this since I was a little girl.

  19. Susan,

    I really liked what you wrote. I agree with you. I don’t think it was right of the teacher to punish the boy for no reason. What if the boy went on the rest of his life being just and not hurting anyone, then he suffered for nothing.

    And since I said it’s relative, I’ll clarify what I meant. Relative to the circumstances: Had the boy done something wrong to deserve punishment, then it would be ok to punish him, as the boy would learn.

    As with the above story, the boy didn’t learn on his own. Neither would he ever (because he didn’t do anything wrong) if he didn’t ask the teacher years later.

    I have a 3 & 4 year old niece and nephew, they do wrong things as a lot of children do. Hardly ever do I get angry at them for doing something wrong, I simply explain to them why it is wrong and they Understand!

    Although when they get out of hand, or way out of line, I am not reluctant to punish, and all I have to do is raise my voice and they are frightened…

    I hope nobody suffers without deserving it!
    xxoo

  20. Anca says:

    Dearest Annie,

    Your message spoke to my heart…

    I grew up with great parents, but human like any parent, being obsessed with properties. Owning as much as they can, always complaining its not enough. I remember crying and asking permission to go to my room and being told it’s not my room, it’s theirs. In time, I got to see them own houses over houses, never happy, always complaining. I ended up buying a place, and feeling terribly trapped in it, so after one year I managed to rent it out, and live in a room I don’t own. They told me I’m not normal, because my motivation and my reasons do not make sense to them. I love them both so much, but sometimes they still make it hard for me to show them.

    The essence of forgiving is knowing what you forgive. For the longest time I thought it should include understanding why the harm was done, but there are situations when you are never explained, or the mind cannot understand, but the heart demands forgiveness. Forgiving injustice and bad things happened to you by letting go of hurt inside. I believe this hurt gains power over our ability to smile, to hope, to accept beauty, because it has once broken smiles, hopes and beauty. And when we let go of the hurt, it loses power over us, that’s when we can smile back, keep hoping, keep building beauty in our lives…and truly forgive.

    And of course you don’t need to like someone in order to love them, you might be blinded at first, but in time that fades. It’s the love with eyes wide open, fully knowing, understanding and supporting someone, showing affection, and patience even if it does not suit your own… that leaves the deepest marks in our hearts. That is when you get to show the beauty of your soul, the very same beauty I think you come to find in here.

    Wishing you love and beauty,
    Anca

  21. susan says:

    Where did this idea of suffering come from? I have often puzzled over the concept of forgiveness, confused. The stories of Mr. Coelho’s has helped me sort some things out.

    Where did this idea of suffering come from? I think that it is intriguingly shown in the story of the teacher and the future King, as the entanglement.

    The teacher had entangled the boy with misery, a misery that is taught and practiced to this day.

    Notice that the teacher never cared enough through all those years to give the student an explanation as to why he had so severely beaten an innocent boy. He left the boy to ‘figure it out on your own’, and the boy suffered as is evidenced that the very first thing he did as king was to call that teacher to the throne.

    Was the boy innocent? Yes, as is evidenced when the king says, ‘why did you punish me when I had done nothing wrong’. The teacher does not deny that the student had done nothing wrong, that the student was innocent. Rather the teacher assumes that indeed he did beat an innocent student. Why would he assume that? Because he had done it before, he ‘knew himself’. It is not that the beater forgets the beating, but that he has beat so many, one face is as all the rest.

    Before the King stands a teacher with no remorse. No apology, no sorrow, this is after all a student, and the teacher still thinks that he is not only correct in his methods of teaching but that he is going to teach the student that he is correct.

    ‘When I saw how intelligent you were, I knew at once that you would inherit the throne from your father’. How much could the teacher have like the father if he was willing to beat the fathers son?

    What was the intelligence that the little boy had that the teacher expounded upon when brought before the king? He was obedient, and outstanding student, he was vulnerable, a beaten student. He was innocent, as has been laid out. Perhaps his intelligence, mind can be likened unto a ‘fountain of crystalline water, and a floor or heart of gold’ so to speak.

    And so the teacher tempts the boy inside the king with false flattery as to the kings intelligence, knowing that the boy is wounded. A sense of justice arises from within the king, knowing that the teacher has done this to many, mingles with the pain that not just the king has suffered but with the pain of knowing others have suffered from this teacher as well. What is the king to do?

    Forgive him? Give him a free pass to wound again?

    And so it stands to reason that the teacher must be isolated from harming others, and just as the teacher cunningly tempted the king to, ‘never punish another without good reason’, the teacher is banished from the kingdom, with his best friends, and finds door number 2. And so the teacher re-enters and preys, while the students pray that they are not the next student, that or they too become preyers.

    And some teachers learn to let go of their best friends, because either way that is the goal.

    Many agree that it is all relative, but it begs the question, relative to what? And many a mother weeps, he was a good boy, he got in with the wrong crowd. It is true, we often do get in with the wrong crowd. Wounded we are confused, confused we are vulnerable, vulnerable we are prey, thus we are wounded again because we were made vulnerable, and made vulnerable we are prey, until at last we find the truth. Only then is the fruit transformed because we found the root/route, our path, a circle of friends.

    I look at ancient scriptures, Holy texts, and I am often saddened. Where, amongst all the tragedy is the love story, I wonder? I tend to take the characters and invent my own. It is that or suffer the tragedy.

    I don’t accept that it is all relative. Some things are related, some things are not.

    I know that Paris is called the City of Lights, but for many years I thought it was called The City of Love, perhaps because it was a popular destination for honeymooners here in the US.

    I wish you all love and light in your upcoming adventure. If it is true that many mothers weep because he/she got in with the wrong crowd, it is also true that many mothers weep for joy, when he/she got in with the right crowd.

    Fore (first) give-ness is not a free pass. It is giving someone their leave of duty to you, so to speak. It is like a final fare well practiced in this life in order to have another in this life.

    Thank You Mr. Coelho.

  22. orly says:

    when i was 12 years old one of my teacher did something similar to me,,, since than 45 years later i can still remember the day it happend,,,
    and she is dead today, but i dont think i ever could forgive her,, and i think she wasnt a good example at all,,,
    beside the point that i agree not to punish with no reason to the best of my knowledge,,, i just learnt from that case that injustice can hurt one 4 ever,,,
    and i personally believe and love people so i would ever punish in general..
    and i forgive others,,,
    but that case was just 1 trauma ,, that i overcame but never forgot,

  23. It’s all so relative…

    If the teacher did not punish the boy, the boy would not learn right?

    What I forgot to say on my previous post yesterday on this same subject is that my patient WAS already flossing every day. Now what’s the point of still making him feel guilty. That’s what was so perplexing to me.

    Yes at times I’ve made, well let me rephrase… I have educated my patients about dental hygiene, and once they know the consequences of the lack of their actions, they automatically and voluntarily feel guilty. I don’t make them feel guilty, I only educate them.

    Also, I’d like to clarify what I said on the previous post about some diseases having no cure. I was specifically speaking about Periodontal disease (gum disease).

    It is curable in the sense that the disease can be Stopped and the Progression of the disease can be Slowed down. But, it is not curable in the sense that it cannot be Reversed back to the original state. Since with gum disease, once you loose the bone around your teeth, it is gone forever.

  24. Irina Black says:

    Is this game worth plaing?By hurting others we change the “course” of both sides:”the beaten” and “the beater”.Sometimes poles changes:”the beaten” becomes “the beater”.And it’s no win-win situation in both cases.To forgive and forget without noticing “the score” in the “battle”, won’t do any harm to anybody.-It is an interesting game,where no winners requiered.

  25. T.K. says:

    “The beater forgets the beating, the beaten never do.”

    So…..would it be safe to assume that as ‘the beaten’ (if you consider yourself as ‘the beaten’), that you MUST ‘break the pact’ as you express in your book The Valkyries to assume a position of victory?

  26. susan says:

    And so the moral of the story is that the King immediately had the teacher seized and cast into prison for all eternity, where he could never hurt another student again.

    Iow’s, he wasn’t fooled by the cunning teacher.

  27. Alexandra says:

    Yes,right.I agree with your point of you,and with your proverbs,the tree is judged by its fruits.Well,happened to see valuable people criticized and minimalized by nobodies.For example,in first year of faculty,there was rumor of scandal.A journal published bad things about some of our professors.We were new,so ,everybody searched that paper for find out with whom we will have to deal,as we trusted the journal.I laughed a lot on some prof,but,after I come to know them,and their works,I see the journalist were not right at all.So,I thought,only to the tree with fruits are thrown the stones….Even valuable people have enemies.

  28. -“Love is what all we need but it is pity that we do not understand it at all.”

    -“Most of the women adores their mothers that is their tragedies and no man does that’s his.”

  29. candie says:

    All you need is love
    All you need is love
    All you need is love,love
    Love is all you need!

    :)

  30. Ca says:

    What the world needs now is love sweet love,
    It’s the only thing that theres just too little of.
    What the world needs now is love sweet love,
    no not just for some but for everyone.

    Lord we don’t need another mountain,
    There are mountains and hillsides enough to climb,
    There are oceans and rivers enough to cross
    Enough to last until the end of time

    What the world needs now is love sweet love,
    it’s the only thing that theres just too little of,
    what the world needs now is love sweet love,
    no not just for some but for everyone

    Lord, we dont need another meadow,
    there are corn fields and wheat fields enough to grow,
    there are sunbeams and moonbeams enough to shine,
    oh listen Lord, if you want to know

    What the world needs now is love sweet love,
    its the only thing that theres just too little of.
    what the world needs now is love sweet love,
    no not just for some, oh but just for every every everyone.

    what the world (whoa whoa) needs now,
    is love (is love) sweet love
    what the world ( oh oh) needs now
    is love (is love) sweet love
    what the world (whoa whoa) needs now
    is love (is love) sweet love

    “What The World Needs Now Is Love – Carpenters”

    Meu amor, meu respeito e minha gratidão.