Anyone who interferes in the destiny of others will never discover his own.
(The Alchemist)
Paulo Coelho
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Previous post: Quote of the Week
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Anyone who interferes in the destiny of others will never discover his own.
(The Alchemist)
Paulo Coelho
Previous post: Quote of the Week
Next post: Les quatre forces
Previous post: Quote of the Week
Next post: Les quatre forces
{ 105 comments… read them below or add one }
really…
too much helping some one, forgot to take care of themselves
its a destiny, isnt it
loooooool….
Too true, and convicting at the same time. I often give too much of a “helping hand” not allowing people to go through their own trials and learn from the experience.
i love you
In other words, we never can dig another’s grave. Once we dig, we can only dig our own grave. So, why spend time digging. Get set and go our own way. Like, encourage the positive spirit and let the negetive, if in case it arises, go stale. Poelho’s words cannot be disputed.
I believe that anyone who interferes in the destiny of others has chosen their own…
A brief walk-on role; as opposed to a starring role in the drama of life.
Friends let me bring in a different perspective to this. There are hundreds of thousands of people who spend their lives caring for the invalids, the old, and the destitutes. I know people who dedicate their lives to become the eyes, ears and limbs of the underprivileged who would otherwise have lead severaly impaired lives. These people touch the lives of millions of people and bring them joy and hope and a vision to dream. Arent these people changing the destiny of other people?
There are people who give up their jobs to teach the underprivileged, mothers who spend their lifetime taking care of special children, chilren who leave their jobs to take care of ailing parents, firemen who risk their lives for saving a baby. Are these people changing the destiny of other people?
What is their personal destiny? Do they lose their personal destiny by impacting the destiny of others?
Love
I wish to comment on what you bring here. I do it in an attempt to put in words what comes into me as I read your comment. As an AA member for some time, as someone who worked in that field, “studied it” and experienced it personally, I observed with time that AA changed. I was discussing that subject often with workers of Centers, teachers, members. Now, there is almost no more persons that are responding to the 12 Steps method concerning helping the new that arrives in the way that it was done by the creators and the first members (standing by on the first days, devotion, talking about themselves, sharing their spiritual “renaissance” …) Why that has changed, I asked myself. Well, what came to mind, and what is observable, is that Centers of Desintoxication, Retablisment, etc … grew like herbs in Occident (North America), became the ones that the one that is called to call it quits on that way of living turn to or is “led” to by family, employers, medecine men, etc … The Centers that developed, by wanting to truly help, became I think a factor that changed AA. AA and its 12 Steps that was first became second player. By wanting to help others with alcohol problem, without knowing the long term effect, it came to have an impact on the groups. That is what I think impacted on what is happening in the groups. What was there in the past, and all the force that was there, well, it changed. That is what I wanted to share about having a good intention but in long term having an impact. That is not to say that all is wrong or not good, but it has an impact. Now, I can reflect on that and say “that is the problem, etc, and I cannot do nothing to change that”. False, I can do something. I can do my part, in my environment, in wanting to live and do what was there at the creation of that association. What is there is now the members rely on Centers to do the biggest of the job, the new consult, go on meetings with the Center, and come from time to time to AA. And Centers well they bring help by different approaches that they believe better, more modern (some teach the “reasonable drinking”), and by that change the essence of the message of the creators. I find that analogy good in writing this. The Creator created something that is simple in its essence. Just have to follow and respect it. We, humans, complicate things with our rational mind, and by that change the essence, bringing more confusion and complexity. Well, that is what I wanted to share. I think the answer to your interrogations are not within me but within those who accomplish that work. With affection, Jojo.
Dear Paulo,
This is such a beautiful statement. It has already stirred something in me. I think back on the many days I spent fretting over something or someone, when all I should have done is to go and find my own destiny.
I feel people have an overpowering urge to control the othe party’s destiny especially when it comes to one’s spouse and children. Instead of spending futile energy in controlling other lives, we might as well try and make our own
Love
What happens to a person who doesn’t discover his/her own destiny? How do they feel? Are they the bitter people out there – old and young… That’s very sad now that I’ve thought about it…
It seems to be the key word in social relationships…
not interferring.
As I grew up, I was aware that grandparents, parents, society even were all very passive when it came to issues that seemed to me to require a human voice.
I, thus, often was the one to voice my objections.
I have a reputation hence for being the ‘black sheep’ of the family.
But I wonder, how much hypocrisy is carried out, all in the name of not interferring.
Surely, as parents or grandparents, there is a right to extend one’s care beyond the pleasantries, the rigid structures of what is acceptable interference?
I know this fully from, again, becoming asked to be a passive observer to a family affair… in which I totally disagree with who my brother wishes to marry.
Ironically, the one person – whom I feel has the right to speak up and out, to extend protection beyond the ‘womb’ – is our mother… and yet, the response from soceity is one of almost condemnation of mother and daughter….
we are classed as merely jealous or domineering…
It is as if the world should prefer large mistakes [expensive divorces] to occur, rather than to make a simple statement of objection!!!
I am quite happy to be a black sheep… of family, society or whatever… because I believe that to continue to be silent is to continue to worship the tyrant… not the Lord provider…
Like our care for many other global concerns, proaction is often unprotracted…
we are happy to allow climate change, wildlife species extinction…
it seems that we never take responsibility for consequences… rather a momentum of rubbish after ‘rubbish’ is allowed to build up.
Anyway, I understand the context of the quote here…
however, I also see that there are wider exceptions and these concern me greatly, daily!!!
Everybody interferes somebody. Words have no sen……….
tu eres mi alquimista
I think i agree with the quote that if we interfere in the destiny of others we cannot discover our own.
I ‘interferred’ in the destiny of my husband and another woman (they two were having an affair via email/phone and were planning to meet physcially around the time i found out). I confronted him with my knowledge of the affair and he said he would stop and i’m important to him etc etc. To further ensure nothing happens i told on him to his mother. His mother and father reminded him of his duty to the family.
IS my confrontation considered ‘interferring’ in other’s destiny? Should i have hid my bleeding/shatterred heart and gone on with life to see where my destiny would have led me? Should i have watched them meet right in front of me in a party? Did my interferring in other’s destiny interfere with my own? or did the other woman (who is married with 2 kids) interfere in mine?
Did i interfere favorably in their destinies and saved the destinies of our two families (my two childeren and her two children) from shame and more hurt?
These are the questions i ask myself again and again. But all i know after all these years is by ‘interferring’ i do not know if my husband truly loves me or is saying he does out of duty and guilt.
If i find myself in such a situation next time i will not interfere, I will be off to find my own destiny!!!!
hia laxami !
i can understand your pain, but look around this site and you may like to refine your views / expectations / execution of a relationship called marriage. sometime bacl we had a discussion here about soulmates, interetsing over 1000 posts. and in the wol newsletter we had a discussion about promiscuity in aniamls and humans. not bad at all.
meanwhile, why wait for the next time to find your own destiny, why don’t u start creating it right away. destiny is not found, i case u are looking here and there, it is created while keeping oneself very aware.
love
aditya
Dear Laxmi
I can sympathise with you on this, I had a similar experience when I was pregnant. I am too vibey to be in any truely committed relationship where my partner is off with other women, I cannot be that detatched. I am not criticising others who live like that, but it is something I cannot do.
When trust is broken so is my love and my heart.
Marriage is in my opinion an agreement between two people as to what they expect from each other. It is a commitment, and having children with that person should strengthen that commitment, unfortunately it is not always the case.
You found out about an affair, your destiny was altered by finding out about it, so you acted within your rights, in my opinion.
My relationship with the father of my child never recovered, it was not our destiny to be life partners, but we are good friends and we have a beautiful daughter, who is a wonderful gift to both our lives.
Follow your heart, your instinct and don’t listen to advice of others.
With love
Pandora
In Russian language “destiny” also means “mission”.
Thank you, dear misha
“destiny” means “Mission”.
I learned from you.
Hmmm…
Destiny = Судьба
Mission = Миссия
Не так ли, Misha? :)
Thanks misha..
Just some thoughts…
How can we interfere with other’s destiny?
-By talking with others?
-By asking them to help you!
-By giving them advice, when they ask you?
No, I don’t think you are interfering with others by doing the above.
Then what does it mean to interfere with the journey/destiny of others, when does that happen?
Well, here interfering with the destiny may be something like
-Forcefully asking someone else to follow your path.
-Thinking that only you are right and everyone else is on the wrong side
Thank you, Misha. That makes a lot of sense, especially in terms of one’s “Personal Destiny” – one’s “mission” in this life.
Dear Paulo
What does that means? I am confused with that statement.
I believe that our destinies are interlinked like a web cob and are constantly interacting.
I agree that the energy and the time we spend interfering with somebody else’s destiny will keep us away from our own destiny. However, What if my destiny is to make somebody else’s destiny reality? Not to divert it, but to help his/her dreams come true.
Perhaps you are talking of negative interference.
Sometimes I don’t believe in destiny, usually this happen when I don’t want to follow advice that has been given to me.
I always believe in destiny when I want to justify my failures or, when I want to explain my intentions to pursue my dreams. Other times when I don’t know what to do, I don’t want to make a decision or I don’t want to fight I come across with the phrase “my destiny is in god’s hands”.
I don’t know what my destiny is. Probably I will know that at the end of my life when I look back and realise that I am happy of how I led my life and that I have made my dreams come true.
Watch your thoughts, for they become words.
Watch your words, for they become actions.
Watch your actions, for they become habits.
Watch your habits, for they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
Lots of love
Aileen
Light and be
I am mindful of using the word ‘we’, since each has a destiny, or very special purpose. Thinking at the moment about situations where intervention is right. Is this interference? To me, no. Passing by situations that call out to ‘me’ is a way of interfering with another achieving their personal legend. (the universe also conspires to help me.) Thank You Paulo, Love To All, Jane : ) xo
It is not religion I am talking about it is the God I am talking about. But you can always be afraid of God, as well… Or maybe to grown-up to believe in the Ten Commandments, that says you shall never kill someone..
If you never kill, no war!
Love, peace and make love-not war
Tina
I love this quote, and agree that undue influence and intentional harm to another’s destiny will so negatively effect our own that we will lose our destiny forever.
However –
Our all our destinies written that they align with one another peacefully? Or is it possible that in pursuing our own destiny that we might come to collision with someone else’s destiny without malice or intentional wrongdoing? What if the path of two clash by coincidence?
Or do you think that for every person there is a destiny perfectly aligned to exist with all others in peace?
Just a few questions that I think about when I consider this quote. Can anybody help?
I’m still at a bit of a loss on this one. Maybe someone could help me understand it better. I can see how, through the use of magic, someone could interfere with the destiny of another. I can also see how a parent, through influence or coercion, could easily interfere with the destiny of a child. I can also see how this could happen if you kill someone or lock them up in prison. But, otherwise, I can’t think of any examples where this might happen. Just an ordinary person, going about their own life, and as long as they don’t lie or deceive other people, how can they interfere with the destiny of another? I’m not arguing against the possibility; I’m just asking for some examples that might help me get it straight in my own mind. I know that I don’t want to interfere in anyone else’s destiny, and I certainly don’t want to do it by accident.
Hello Savita
Pertaining to your need to understand, what comes to my mind as an example is when we use the “You” instead of the “I” in communicating. “You should not think that, you should not accept that, etc” instead of saying “When I see that, or hear that, I feel this and that”, and we take a decision based on our sensibility towards ourselves, etc …, the other one being with the Source, at the level he is in, to follow his path. I think that there is a difference between influence by existing authentically and interference which is a way of telling the other what he should think, or do, to be “in our way of seeing and doing things”. What I try most of all is to listen to the world, the other, and keep for myself. If I express, it is out of love for myself, out of wanting to exist for myself, with no intention of changing things but of bringing another light, my light. We are all, I think, in pursuit of the same thing, using different paths, at different levels. There is a master and a disciple. Some are masters, others disiciples. And there is those who do not follow yet, since they have a path to go to attain the road of the disciple. Interfering would be to want to bring a person to a level, out of love, but again, that person would not understand, integrate, since the road was paved for him. We all have to walk the road of Compostelle in our heart. When somebody is put on my path, I listen, do not take for granted for now, and go back and reflect, to make sure that that message is for me, and I take the message and put it in light of my own life. But some people, when vulnerable, take all what is said and change direction suddenly, thinking and hoping that that is the answer. The answer to what? To calm fears, to not have to live specific emotions. But that person needs to live them. Emotions are life, be them good or bad, in a person’s point of view and in a person’s history. I try to become the Master of my life. I am a disciple who wishes to climb it’s stairs. I try not to let myself divert or disturb, which I use to do when in a desert and vulnerable. Everything requires vigilance, “discernement”, conscious mind. And everything starts with myself, being vigilant, trying to understand, be conscious of why at that present moment I want so bad to say this, or do that … Personality must be after the Soul, but often the personality is conducting. My soul needs my personality to accomplish its destiny, its mission, not the opposite. To think that I possess all the knowledge is the Ego. Until my last breath, I am a disciple who wishes to attain the master’s level. Like St-Paul, that is my race. With affection, Jojo
Liked to read you Liina. You know, when I look at another, I try to stay focus that what I see in the other, or hear that touches me, is a part of me. Relations are often the mirror of one self. Example, if I see in one person always something that I “think” is wrong, that must probably mean that I judge myself all the time, being in a negative state of mind covered by a positive rational thinking. The other person is just the ignition for me that the Source utilizes to view myself, understand myself, change myself. A friend of mine told me to be aware of all the warnings, or things that I try to transmit for the other to understand, comprehend, change, because I am probably talking to myself through the other.
Dearest Paulo,
The link to your post second on the link is missing. That’s just Wicked, (;) as trying to find it would take hours and hours as if there isn’t enough reading material already. Unless you are trying to keep it private.
Just a heads up to hopefully see the link as I personally don’t want to miss anything you say! :D
Love
C.
I love this quote…a simple and brilliant truth well written.
People interfer in others destiny’s when they are attempting to ignore and escape taking responsibility for their own. Many who do this feel superior. Feelings of superiority and a superior, ‘know what’s best for everyone’ attitude mask feelings of self loathing, inadequacy and incompetence.
Usually, when people ask for advice, they are asking for permission to do what they already know they are going to do.
If your advice is different than what they want to hear or do, they wind up resenting you.
Therefore, it’s best to be a good listener and guiding light rather than interfer in another’s destiny by insisting they do what you say for best results. One can only offer their own personal experience where appropriate and let the other know that their course of action may be entirely different, that they know themselves well enough to do what is best for them if they listen to their instinct.
In a materialistic society it is sometimes difficult to distinguish between needs and wants. Wanting is a form of attachment that leads to pain if ones perspective becomes distorted by media advertising and the ‘Keeping up with the Jonses’ effect.
I’m rambling off topic. Thank you Paulo Coelho for your many gracious and profound quotes and your generosity in sharing yourself through your engaging, creative endevours and online involvement.
thou shall not tresspass against others….
it is written!!
Maktub – It is written! Thank You Paulo, Love to All, Jane : ) xo
Dear all,
-”Interfering someone’s word, someone’s walk, someone’s path and someone’s mission is like interfering your own.”
-”Nothing happens by chance or coincidence, you just are puppet who is playing his/her part in the earthy stage. ”
-”Either you can choose to be right or you can choose to go wrong but in between right and wrong, you must select one.”
-”Destiny is future predetermined courses of events, very unpredictable, very scary and very small journey, go beyond and you might just find yourself reaching eternity.”
-”Discovery of future is not important, self discovery in present is more important. Even if you will fail without interfering other’s destiny, you might still wake up rediscovering.”
God bless you !
and
God bless you all !
indeed – what do you do if someone else is interfereing in yours?!
Guys,
black magic is not an evil one, otherwise it’d be called evil magic, the same is with the white magic-it doesn’t mean it is good.
That is only to show the dualistic nature of the Universe.
No need to estimate if it’s good or evil, that’s the way it is.
Use it for your advantage like your garden plants, some can be poisonous but it is up to you what you’ll use them for.
Konrad
There is no other religion than the belief in God.
Magic is NOT the belief in God. Magic is the devils work.
Let us all pray for everyone who has lost there faith in God, to overcome it and give them strength to believe again in God.
Thank you Luminita, so much!!
Love, Tina
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIi4qWLFAUQ
But I know, I have been exposed of magic and IT IS EVIL. If you want to use magic then in a way you want to control others or think that you know things better than others…
Still there are some plants that are poisonous, but used in the right amount, can be a cure, in excess, deadly.
Life is magical, and what are you guys considering when you say black magic? something done to harm another, well isn’t that just Wrong?? It is wrong to harm another life, but even harm can be right in the right circumstance, say one is being harmed, to protect their own life, they have to fight back and cause harm.
Even though we are solitary, we come alone, we go alone, but in between, life is a series of relationships, we cannot avoid being influenced by the people around us, there just is no escape from that, we are constantly being influenced from our surroundings, from the planet from the cosmos the microcosmos, Everything in existence.
And that is also a part of our destiny, our ability to prevent another from interfering in our destiny or allowing them to help, discerning the difference between the two, is a matter of personal choice, and ability.
We are all equipped with Will, the ability to do that which we want. Yet there are some basic rudimentary ideologies, which are self defining, such as, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, treat others as you would want to be treated, and cause no harm. That’s just plain and simple!
I’d also like to say that even ‘harming’ can be relative or unavoidable, for example, say if a person hurts the people around them by following their personal legend, then in this case, harming is unavoidable, and perhaps a part of the destiny of the others… So again, everything is relative.
love
C.
Sometimes you are becoming a part of someone’s life, but not their destiny… You “interfere” against your own desire, against all the odds… but you have no way back,
because they became your own destiny, no matter for how long, no matter that they have no idea about that…no matter that they are far away and this will never change…
I see what you are saying Aditya and I agree. I think when we say interfere in this case however, we mean impede or hinder or slow down the process of someone else’s dream. If there love is the source of our interaction with others, then we are not interfering, we are nurturing. Not only are we nurturing their dreams, but ours as well.
Unfortunately my father constantly stepped in the way of my dreams, telling me to get my head out of the clouds, or telling me I was a quitter if something I was doing was no longer on my heart (because it made him “look” bad. Til this day he has not been able to follow his dreams and blames others for his lack of fulfillment. I have, however, through all the turmoil learned freedom, due to his opression i learned what was fulfilling and wholesome, and what love really is. The light was revealed to me, WITH MUCH THANKS TO PAULO and his divine inspiration. So in the end my path was not destroyed … only his, and hopefully not forever!
much love,
Seth
Hello Paulo,
interfere with the destiny more different or to find the way for others, at last is not to be reminded of own truth.
Many people whether parents, friends, colleagues, have tried etc. already once, in this to add destiny of being close, or to steer even tried.
Our ways, they are also wander, will be always own ours, all the same what a depth or height.
To steer in the destiny more different, the nature would be called to influence.
Does she admit it?
Every destiny probably serves us to arise from it.
On account of love or friendship, we bear responsibility, ways point, but can be a matter to learn to build anew, have to do him everybody itself.
There will always be them, those people who allow themselves to say us what is the right thing for us. However, want we to be the mirror of the other?
Every person is own personality which hears Nobody, only everybody to itself.
So also his ways in which one wanders or finds ….Deep blow or enchantment gets to know.
Even man will not intervene, because he knows that we learn, with every day in we proceed on a new in the school of the life.
kind regards
Gabriele / paintbrush poet
i do agree to this quote. it is true indeed coz whenever we will try n intrfere in other’s destiny we wont get anything bt jst the time wastage and the a bad result in the relations as the feelings of envy gives nothing.
I see what you are saying Aditya and I agree. I think when we say interfere in this case however, we mean impede or hinder or slow down the process of someone else’s dream. If there love is the source of our interaction with others, then we are not interfering, we are nurturing. Not only are we nurturing their dreams, but ours as well.
Unfortunately my father constantly stepped in the way of my dreams, telling me to get my head out of the clouds, or telling me I was a quitter if something I was doing was no longer on my heart (because it made him “look” bad. Til this day he has not been able to follow his dreams and blames others for his lack of fulfillment. I have, however, through all the turmoil learned freedom, due to his opression i learned what was fulfilling and wholesome, and what love really is. The light was revealed to me, WITH MUCH THANKS TO PAULO and his divine inspiration. So in the end my path was not destroyed … only his, and hopefully not forever!
much love,
Seth
Hello Paulo,
interfere with the destiny more different or to find the way for others, at last is not to be reminded of own truth.
Many people whether parents, friends, colleagues, have tried etc. already once, in this to add destiny of being close, or to steer even tried.
Our ways, they are also wander, will be always own ours, all the same what a depth or height.
To steer in the destiny more different, the nature would be called to influence.
Does she admit it?
Every destiny probably serves us to arise from it.
On account of love or friendship, we bear responsibility, ways point, but can be a matter to learn to build anew, have to do him everybody itself.
There will always be them, those people who allow themselves to say us what is the right thing for us. However, want we to be the mirror of the other?
Every person is own personality which hears Nobody, only everybody to itself.
So also his ways in which one wanders or finds ….Deep blow or enchantment gets to know.
Even man will not intervene, because he knows that we learn, with every day in we proceed on a new in the school of life.
kind regards
Gabriele / paintbrush poet
:(
or to interfere in the computer of others
I wonder at this… because in Brida we find the example of the Magus who did interfere in another’s destiny and wondered afterward. However, he met his soul mate and regained his destiny, or so I believe.
I am the mother of autistic children, so I must balance pushing them outside themselves with allowing them to flower gracefully. I don’t know if I know my destiny or not, but I think I have reclaimed it now that my children have grown to adulthood… although I still need to push them outside themselves since they live with me and need to find their place in the world. LOL
So, as with all things, this quote has its balance, I suppose. The truth is, we can only find our destiny when we turn within… and we cannot turn within when we are interfering with another’s destiny.
Oh oh. Seem bad. I should say ” Is not my funerall?”
Each one is responsible for his her path. But our way entangles others paths too. So?
but no one can interfere in the destiny of others…
sure ?
love
aditya
Si uno no puede interferir en la vida de otro por mas que quiera…. uno solo puede dar una pauta,ACOMPAÑARLO…en su vida… pero no puede… por mucho que algunas personas crean que manejan la vida de otros..simpre.. dentro de ellas,,, existe su verdadera verdad… aunque otros la quieran hacer desaparecer.
Beautiful, Beautiful…….
But The Stars Cannot Help But Shed Light……
Beautiful Love Guides The Heart.
~~ The Hands That Flung The Stars Into Space Guide Even The Moon In Its Path!
Light Cannot Help But Spread Life…..
And Encourage Others To Grow.
Love Never Fails……
And How Beautiful Is The Light That Gives Light To The Sun!
..The Most Beautful Song;
And Fragrant Of Flowers……
A great quote! If someone is meddling in someone else’s destiny, they are Not putting their energy into their own, and thus not allowing the universe to conspire in materializing their own destiny. And perhaps impeding the other persons from achieving their own.
Can’t help but to think that parents are the number one culprits of this. Of course they want the best for their child, but they don’t understand that what They think is best for the child is not necessarily true. So they exert so much energy in interfering and directing their children s destinies that in the process, they stop living and achieving their own. AS if once they have children, their lives stop and they have no more destinies, or the things they wanted and didn’t achieve, the child can do for them. Yes children are an extension of their parents, but they are their own individual beings with their own wants, needs, thoughts, desires and destinies.
Every individual, no matter their age, should be respected and treated as an individual. And if we are busy and involved in living our own destinies, we won’t be so concerned in interfering in someone else’s.
love
C.
I totally agree. I used parents as an example for this at the bottom of the page as well.
Through interference or choice the world was brought into existence: the price-sansara.
Difficult not to at times..as we all at times believe we know ‘what is best’ for another person be it a friend/lover/family member..
Also does it imply accidental interference or purely deliberate interference..
Taking it that the universe is on everyones side by trying to make our paths flow in the right direction. Then we can not ignore but we can be less worried about the accidental as that may well be the way it’s meant to be..
Deliberate interference however is quite another matter..
Giving advice, as long as the other parties are left with no doubt that their’s is the choice to take it or leave it, is not only ok but necessary if our own paths are to be followed..
Just my thoughts as jumbled as they are..:-)
Hi Michel
u say and i agree “Giving advice, as long as the other parties are left with no doubt that their’s is the choice to take it or leave it, is not only ok but necessary if our own paths are to be followed..”
but nothing can be made into a rule, sometimes we may have to not only advise but use force also, suppose a freind is hell bent upon meeting his destiny head all 11 floors below by jumping from the 11 th floor, Of course we would asdvise teh freind to postpone this destined event, but here we need to do everything in our capacity to ensuer that it’s not upto him/her to decide in thsi matter, not at least till we are around, if someone is hell bent then what can anyone do, destiny.
love
aditya
all i want to say is that we need to refer to all these ‘maualals of wols’, specially one by paulo & maybe few others too, but after reading them, living them for sometime, we need to drop all the mind stuff, all rules, what was retainable would have got retained in our being. that is why one must refer to these manuals, daily if possible. refer contemplate and then forget the words.
eu acho sério esse assunto,porque muitas vezes a omissão ( pelo egoísmo) faz mudar toda uma estrutura que já estava condicionada/traçada pela vontade de Deus. E nesse caso,é bem ruim, infelizmente para todos.
beijos,
Mari.
Aditya, It basically means ( i think) that one should work towards themselves and do not bother in interfering in other person business, If someone is moving up the ladder and u tryin to bring them down wont necessarily affect in ur way, but if u dont wry abt them and perform to ur best towards UR goals then you just forming ur own little world ( as it is said You create ur own world when you move along )
Cheers
Rishi
Hi rishi,
yes to most of what u have said, but i feel u may be mistaken when u say that “and u tryin to bring them down wont necessarily affect in ur way”. it does not work that way, for all u know that chaps path may remain unhindered, for all u know all your brickbats may be getting transformed into flowers by teh time they recah him, but one who throws brickbats knows what s/he is throwing and accordingly one gets one’s reward.
little world ? big world ? we are the world !
love
aditya
Liberty and creativity. If I have an impact on the other’s life, if that brings the other to be more free and creative of who he is, well that’s a good interference. If I talk, act, with an intention for the other to turn, that is for me a bad interference. I have only one intention, and it concerns myself. In what I accomplish as my line of “work”, it goes to transmit and communicate what “I” found, how I found it, why it works for me, etc, etc … Like reading your book, Mr. Coelho, I retrieve what speaks to me. What does not speak to me, I do not judge, but put aside for a time. Maybe it comes back and speaks to me and maybe it deverts in another way for me. In relation with another, I see me. When I see weaknesses or forces in the order, that speaks of me, and it “interferes” on me. Until that moment, I always tried to interfere to change the other so to be with he or she. Now, today, I am more acceptant and tolerant, keeping my energy and eyes focused on myself, because I know that this is my path that I am living, my personal legend. In wanting to help another, in wanting to communicate a “truth”, well, who am I? Am I God? No. I am a Searcher of the Truth. When I met someone, I ask myself “Why God that person on my path? I listen, observe. It is a light when it gives me juice to go further in my Quest. It is interference when the other tries to communicate something to me in the hope that I fit in his way of seeing and living. In living my Personal Legend, on walking my path of understanding my true self, my mission, my weaknesses to accept and transform, I may influence others to do so for themselves. I know someone who is doing not good. Depressed, many financial problems because of past sufferings, of unconscious moves that brought him to go deeper and deeper. I am tempted to give him clues to “how to resolve”. That is interference. But I try to shut up on that, because I know that he has the power within himself and I wish to not interfer in what he has to discover and succeed. I listen, be there with all my sensitivity, transmit hope of finding by sharing how I found. I share what I discovered, with what Force I achieve day by day, and if that helps to get his flame, that is there inside me, become brighter, then I became one of God’s instrument to deliver a message, a message that the other captioned, like I caption when I read something or hear something. But if I sit with him and tell him that that is that, you must this, and it goes like that, there is no other way, well, yes, it is true, but the other will miss steps that he has to do. That is interference for me. But again, those are “words”. And I do not want to start again for me trying to define words … it is the essence that is contained in the word for me and then I try to find words to define the essence, but no words can, for me. So, I come to the beginning of this comment … liberty and creativity. Where there is freedom and creativity of oneself as unique, there is no interference.
Hi Johanne !
something like what u write i too have written below.
yes one of the best ways to share with others what u wish to share maybe through sharing one’s being. in virtual space that being is reduced to words.
in your response, i still don’t get why do u hold back when u can share with someone something, which in your opinion may help that person. that person maybe destined to discover it on his own, but some people get ‘turned on’ by a simple nudge from you. u know when Buddha attained enlightnemnet, it said that, he just sat there for 7 days, then all gods came and asked Buddha to teach what he has attained, buddha said that he sees no point when everyone is destined anyway. gods are not gods for nothing, they convincced buddha ” yes indeed, everyone is destined, but u well know mankind can be divided in three categories 1. one those who are already WOLs, real once, certainly u don’t need to look for them they will look for you and find u, 2. teh category who is in deep sleep pursuing ambitions, imagining they will be happy when this or that happnes, the vast majority who don’t need you and if u trouble them too much they will put you on a pedestal, like they have done with zesus, and start putting flowers and incese to you while continuing their sleep and sleep walk through life, there is a 3. category a small number of people who are in twilight zone, who can see that they have been dreaming all their lives, who are in between, sleep and waking state, they may take a plunge inwto wakefullness if you show your self to them.”
so in a momenet of action dear Johanne, let’s leave aside all mind stuff and do as our heart dessires, even if it is appear a fool trying to help others, it is worth risking it.
love
aditya
And not clear to who it’s been adressed too
This quote has many interpretations!
First, I believe in Destiny and Karma. So if we interfere with others’ destiny it is ‘written’ in the … Stars!
If we interfere, because we feel that we want to help others and ‘ease’ their way and help them ‘carry their Cross’, then, unless we know how to ‘burn’ or ‘dissolve’ their Karma, we must be prepared to carry a ‘heavier’ burden than it was supposed … Because our actions are … interfering with … Harmony. The Balance. The Law of ’cause and result’.
The last, but not least in my opinion, is if we interfere in the Destiny of others using BLACK MAGIC. It is the Power used for our own benefit for material wealth, power or imposing our Will on others.
May we always use our ‘acquired’, during the Way, Powers and Might just for .. Right and ‘unconditional love’!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Thank you Neela! I love you.
LOVE,
Thelma.
Hiii Thelma,
Good to see you! I missed you. Yes, we should be careful with what we wish for others, even our thoughts about others, might set off powers out of our control. So agree, always wish well upon our brothers and sisters.
Love,
Heart
Gia sou Thelma,
xaroume pu sas vlepo edo!
love
C.
I miss you here. Thanks to came back I know that you travel but is good read you and Paul too.
Kises for you dear Thelma.
Blessings for you, dear Hildegarde, too..
I love you.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Hi thelma !
welcome back, how was the trip.
black magic – have u known any practisioners of black magic, why is it called black ?
love
aditya
Exact Thelma,
black magic disgusts me and any kind of sects as well.People think they are free,but they in fact aren’t at all.I might not be free by the responsabilities I have and the fact that I have to alternate between many things,but at least I don’t belong to any category.I don’t use any kind of magic,I don’t belong to any religious movements and do not let any “superior beings” telling me what to do.Only God and the angels above can tell us what to do or not to do.All the rest,us,are on the same level.
what does it mean ?
every action of ours, every interaction of ours has some bearing on the way others act or react, however minisucle or great that affect maybe. so in a way we are all interfering with destiny of others. Our very exiatance necessiates that we interfere in destiny of others, for good or bad.
not clear what is meant here !
love
aditya
We are all manifestations of the divine, and therefore mirrors reflecting each others’ true nature. If we do not tend to our own path, we are essentially hindering the path of others. In the same way, by interfering with another’s path, our own path has not been tended to or realized. I believe what Mr. Coehlo is trying to say is that we must first be responsible for the path of our heart, which we realize, ultimately, is the ideal path for humanity as a whole.
An example of this includes families where a parent is living their life through their offspring. Where a father or mother forget their dreams and path, casting their own worries and fears upon their children. So the children grow up in fear, and the parents never realize their personal legend. However, if the parents had simply followed the path of their heart, their children would see better how to do that themselves. I appreciate your comments Aditya and much blessings to all.
Seth
I like that Heart..”So agree, always wish well upon our brothers and sisters.” it is a beautiful concept and one we should all try to follow..thankyou
I was trying to pray for someone the other day and I came up with the idea that rather than pray for them to get what they want in life..I should just pray that they get what they need and leave it to the universe to determine what that should be..I found it very hard to do that without adding any clauses like, as long as its a good thing not a trial,etc. I found but it actually gave me a peaceful feeling after I did it..
Love,
Michael
Thank you Heart. I missed you so much, BFF!!! You see I remember.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Hi Seth,
Just read your comment! Yes, so true. Great minds think alike ;D
love
C.
Thank you Michael. What you say is very beautiful too ‘..just pray that they get what they need and leave it to the universe…’
Love,
Heart
I have missed you all, dear Rosa.. Well I was with sixteen other friends from Limassol as tourists, but it seems we are ‘more’ friends here…!! We Just love..
I am back, but … where is Paul???!!!!!
Where are you dearest Paul??? ;-]
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
yes so true ! seth & C, from one agngle !
can we go a little deeper on this. i too have seen many parents ‘guide’ their offsprings so much that few have ended up wrecks. My freind’s younger brother ended up as a nevous wreck after doing so well from stad 1 to std 9 that we were all given his example. I too was naive then ( even now i am ;-) ), otherwsie i would have fought for his freedom from his mom, like to some extent i did for my freind, mom jee used to take all care of him from morning to evening but only condition being that he be a mugging machine.
here in India, this thing, trying to fulfill one’s unfisnished ‘agenda’ ( ambition ) through one’s offspings, is not so uncommon, looking from a difrent perspective i am yet to see what all is wrong or right way of doing it, or whether thsi whole thing is wrong, i don’t know. thankfully my father & maa were diffrent, so never had to come face to face with this problem.
so long as what Paulo has indicated is a wilful, consious interference in other’s destinies just out of jealousy or greed, i too can understand, for all actions cost energy, and for someone who needs to discover his/her own destiny, every ounce of energy, every action is precious.
my only concern was that one should be clear that when one is interacting with others, everyone involved is playing with destiny of others. a word caught there, a gesture noticed there, anything can change one’s life and life trajectory.
we need not be afraid of interaction, but non interference in someone’s destiny, if it means we should not use coersion, deceit, blackmail, force,, i am for it.. But we all have right and responsibility to interfarre, a positive interference, where one may request, one may inspire; we have a responsibility to interfare in destiny of others, with love, without force.. Is that not what paulo is trying to do here, is that not what Zesus tried to do, to interfare in destiny of others.
C & seth,
thanks again.
love
aditya
Dear Annie,
These words spoken by the Alchemist sounded like a curse – “Τα λόγια του Αλχημιστή ακούστηκαν σαν κατάρα “( page 215 Greek Copy of Book) – for we should never misuse our “knowledge, insight etc …” because serious injury could come upon us and all others that come within the range of our influence…because like the Alchemist said: ..όταν κάτι εξελίσσεται, εξελίσσεται μαζί και ο,τι είναι γύρω του..
It shows the responsibility you have for yourself and all others (within the range of your influence) through what you do or not do (in whatever form) on your path…..
With loving kindness,
Satora
Annie, you sound upset. You’re right, and do not let what other do or say upset you! Just stay on your path and follow it no matter what anyone says!
love!
Interesting analogy Aditya… at the gates of death, what does one do? of course you interfere, or at least try best as possible!
Fair point..taken on board..cheers aditya..
Salut Aditya,
To answer to your question about “holding back”. It is in the concept of “saving”. It is important for me to take my time and see if my action is well to stop the hurting inside me, the suffering that it makes inside me to see the other suffer. Why? Because then my action is directed towards me and not the other. By helping the other, I am helping me. Conscience of the action is yes important for me. Imagine if God was letting himself go to all the suffering that He sees on a second basis when he sees me crying, not well, etc. He would interfere all the time. The desert is a place that all great people who attained the spiritual goal in life have had to go through. So, it is in that sense that I hold back. I hold back but that does not mean I do not go in my private place and that I do not pray and seek guidance. If I should have taken an action after that introspection, well, I come back and say. I used to be impulsive, and at times have to deal with that impulsiveness. You know humans are great creations, but there is the Ego that is a part of it that “interferes” a lot. With love, Jojo.
Γειά σου Καρολίνα, σε ευχαριστώ για τα καλά σου λόγια!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
You’re right Annie.I did it once and I have no intention to harm that person,but I shouldn’t have to,and I won’t do it again.
Hi Aditya!! Thank you ..
It is called ‘Black Magic’ which the … opposite of White Magic! I have heard of people who had ‘powers’ to make a ‘spell’ or send a ‘curse’. They also claim that they can make someone … love you or … return to your arms… These are actions against the Will of some other Soul. So it is interfering with the other Soul’s karma and free will..
I think: What is the use of someone’s coming back or love me only after some …. magical actions??? ;-]
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
it feels good to not standing alone once in a while
and in all that nonsense madness where people think it’s all about competition,instead of thinking just to be and let others be too,it feels good dear Annie.
Yesterday,standing in the crowd,feeling so alone,I’ve seen again how much people are holding to apparences and material things.How can it be different in a town like Geneva?They would stop to look at the shops and watch all that luxury,saying that they would like one of this,one of that and I was looking at the sky to see if there were any stars..Am I normal?I’m not saying that I don’t go shopping,I go shopping like anyone.But most of shops in Geneva are too much,well it’s not for me.All that isn’t for me.But thanks the architecture is great,and the view of the lake is still a beauty and the last but not least,there were actually stars in the sky ;)
Still prefer London..but that’s a matter of taste.
Sunshines to you Annie
You are so sweet Annie and thank you very much.
You are one of the brightest spot ever!Definitely!You always got the right words and it’s a blessing to read your comments all the time.You’re not pretending,you are.It’s nice to meet authentic people.Thanks again.
And you will make it big times!
See you around :)
yes Jojo ! salute
Ok, there is a fine balalnce which words alone cannot acpture, possibly that is why we are having so many ‘views’.
If someone has to pass thru fire and live in a desert ( actually every one has to at some point in time ), it’s for God to decide, i don’t interefere because i cannot also. But, if i see a person trapped in fire i will make efforts to take him/her out, success or failure is not in my hands, a clear conscience is !
something similar to what u have said.
love
aditya
Virgin Mary gives messages to all people, every month. You can look at this months message right now, at this page-http://medjugorje.hr.nt4.ims.hr/
Well…I don’t know about that. I’m not sure that the two are necessarily opposed to one another. I don’t know much about magic and I’m certainly not a magician – not that I know of – but I really think that we have to leave it up to every individual to find their own path to God. Maybe for some, this is though magic or some tradition associated with the practice of it.
When I look around me at society today – at all the wars being waged in the name of religion – it seems to me that the most dangerous thing in the world (the greatest evil) is when one group stands up and says, “We have it all figured out. We know the way to God, and ONLY we are right. Everyone else is on the side of the Devil.” So far, I’ve never seen a war waged in the name of Magic, but I’ve seen a lot of wars waged in the name of this or that religion.
In my opinion – and of course, this is just my opinion – the Devil is a mirror, and nothing more. When we cease to hate, when we cease to be fearful and defensive, when we open our hearts fully, the image disappears.
With Love,
Savita
Dear Savita
I totally agree with you. That is exactly my argument when somebody tries to convince me that they have the absolute true. There are many paths to god and all of them are right if they lead us to the same point, make us better human beings and love and protect humanity and nature. God loves us in many ways and in many languages, and for different cultures he adopts different names.
Love
Aileen
Oh dear Candieb, you are so right about Annie!!
She is a … treasure!!
I am so proud.
LOVE,
Mamma Thelma xxx
Thanks for your reply, Jojo. I agree with you 100% – that every person has to find their own light, their own path, their own meaning and reason to life. Even when we think we have the answers – answers that work for us – we should be careful not to push our views off on other people. What works for us may not work for them at all. And what’s really important anyway is the questions. Just giving the supposed “answers” to someone doesn’t help them very much at all.
Thank you Savita. That is where I am as for now, and I like the way you put it too. When there is inside me the “urge” to transmit what I consider a light, I always do it starting from me, in a “sharing” spirit, always saying to the other why I feel sensitive, etc … before adding anything else, and what I add is well like sharing a treasure that is there for me, and letting the other free to take that jewel and try it on or put it aside until the jewel shines. And God is the one that chooses when to make it shine, not me. With affection, Jojo
I cannot agree more. We, as people, should follow our own path, but should not hold others from following theirs. And as bad as the one mentioned is also when we tell them what to follow.
That’s why my advice to people who ask for my opinion is so general. I will rule out some possibilities of the situation that they are in, or the possibilities of the outcome, or the actions to take to make the situation better, but in the end of the conversation I never say what they should do. I always say things like: “Do, what You feel would be best for You.” or “Follow Your heart, where it leads You.” or such. I do not want the burden of influencing someone to do what I feel is right, because what is right for me might not be right for another person. I know it’s cheezy, but people must start to listen to their own souls instead of desperately looking for clues and ropes to hang on to. Sometimes the clues and ropes are neccecary, but in the end it’s still us who make the decision, and if our actions outcome is not as we wanted it to be, we cannot place fault on others.
And there is a weird thing – lately I’ve seen, that every day we get a chance to change something, as Paulo has written in many of his books. That there is a moment we know, we have possibilities to do and act in multiple ways. Which one we choose is up to us. But there is always possibilities to change our old habbits and dive in the river.
It’s up to us, if we decide to stay the same or change something.
But it is definitely not ok, in my eyes, to tell others, what they should change. We can give people advice, we can acknowledge them with different possibilities of a situation/path, but in the end they still should do what they feel is right for them.
Love,
L.
I’m walking, thinking.
Thank you all. Black magic is the Will power used with the help of Devils to acquire Earthly and material possessions. Remember Faust and ‘The portrait of Dorian Gray’. It is to leave our Soul unguarded to the lower desires, emotions and Elementals..
The ‘Sunday prayer’= Κυριακή προσευχή, as we call it, says :
‘YOUR WILL BE DONE AS ON HEAVEN SO ON EARTH’. We surrender to his WILL and ALL WISDOM, ALL KINDNESS & ALL MIGHTY = ΠΑΝΣΟΦΙΑ, ΠΑΝΑΓΑΘΟΤΗΣ & ΠΑΝΤΟΔΥΝΑΜΙΑ. So peace resides in our Soul and we are the expression of LOVE.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Dear Pandora,
Thanks for your thoughts of solidarity and understanding.
I can also understand your decision to leave your relationship with an unfaithful spouse and support your decision.
Love,
Laxmi
HI Aditya,
You are right in saying that I should find our destiny without waiting for the ‘next time’.
I read the WOL article and also read the some of the ones on the soulmate.
I am not the only one to experience this pain on earth nor will i be the last. That’s a sad thought..but i guess an inevitable truth of life.
My destiny (i had decided) is to make sure I raise my children (2 sons) with empathy, honesty and awareness that they do not cause this pain to any other woman. At the same time , re-discovering the force called love that pulled me and my husband together in the first place. If inspite of my efforts to ‘rediscover’ and pursue this destiny there is a ‘next time’ then i will take it as a sign to find another destiny that does not involve my husband in it.
Dear Laxmi
You are very welcome.
Love
Pandora
Words also have sense.
Carolena please don´t be naive- magical is one word for a situation that is wonderful, magic on the other hand is the thing witches use to harm you. So a affected by magic the sitution wouldn´t be magical it would be like hell.
Love, Tina
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