Last week “Quote of the Week” was from Oscar Wilde. All of a sudden, someone said Oscar Wilde was a homosexual, which is true. Then the discussion started to be not about the quote but about Oscar Wilde, sexuality and homosexuality in general. So, this week is about this Taboo : Homosexuality.
I’m looking forward for your opinions, and please remember that your comments will be moderated but not censored.
Thank you!
{ 866 comments… read them below or add one }
← Previous Comments
Next Comments →
Personalmente creo, que si dos SERES se aman deven de hacerlo, no importa el genero que sean hetero, o homo. Yo respeto la opinion de todos los demas pero digo yo quien somos nosotros los humanos, que tenemos errores, para jusgar a los demas?
Las personas homosexuales tienen el mismo derecho que los demas a amar y ser amados, por que siguen siendo personas con sentimientos y reales. Y por supuesto mientras no perjudiquen la vida de terceras personas todo esta bien. Y si a alguien no le gusta ver besandose hombre con hombre pues no los mire! volte para otro lado.
Ah pero eh encontrado que si una mujer se besa con otra hai si piensan ‘ah!es sexy’. Por favor que es eso.
Como dice mi abuela o todos coludos o todos rabones.
En fin yo estoy a favor de la gente gay, no me molesta menos me incomoda cada quien busca la manera de ser feliz.
O no?
Hello all!
I LOVE life!…and I LOVE sex! With sex I have enjoyed a marriage to my wife for 20 years and raised three wonderful children. This is part of my sexuality and we remain married and in love. With sex I have a committed friendship and lover in a man for two years which has healed me and helped me love myself and life in a way I could never have imagined without him. I feel like the luckiest man alive. I don’t know where we invented these labels of “homosexuality” and “heterosexuality” as if they were individual and separate existences. In this world there is the opportunity to love with all your heart and might and to be loved back. Don’t be afraid but be careful with the hearts of those you love. In seeking your own happiness try not to ruin the happiness of others, if possible. But you have ONE life! Love it!
Paulo, you´re very right about fear, it´s a system of control. Fear many times manifests as anger. Fear of lack, fear of being undeserving, fear of losing, fear of being wrong, fear of being foolish and of not being liked or accepted, fear of being cast out of one´s tribe or clan, fear that one´s gifts will not be well received. Most fear is suppressed, that´s what makes it dangerous. We´re not even aware that it is there. We inherit a lot of it from being exposed to the fear energy of our parents. We learn to fear what they fear. Fear and conditioning are very much intertwined. Therefore fear is the worst disease on this planet. People incarnate here to overcome it and then forget completely why they came here! That´s why so many never follow the dream or find a better way. The more fear a person has, the less perception he or she possesses, and the less perception, the less one learns about the realities of life.
now this, is sanity.
But also, there is a difference between fear anger, and the anger of actually being raped at the soul level, by cruel, arrogant, and dogmatic societies. That anger is very real. One anger is created in the mind, and the other is the actual result to to the person, to people, from those angers created in the mind.
That which is created in the mind is ignorance, and that which is perpetuated onto others, as a result, is evil.
La naturaleza nos ensena mas que la historias que el mismo hombre a creado. La homosexualidad es parte de la vida misma. Muchas especies que viven en este mundo son homosexuales y se reproducen homosexualmente, con lo cual se demuestra que es un estilo de vida natural y propio de este mundo. Lo demas es lo que cada persona quiere creer…. Para aquellos que tachan a una persona por ser homosexual deben de comprender que el alma de una persona va mucho mas alla de con quien uno decide hacer el amor…
La homoxesualidad sencillamente solo le deberia importar a los que son homosexuales, que nos importa a los demas la sexualidad de cada persona, que vamos a hacer? como decian antes? curarlos, nos tienen que curar a muchos de costumbres y actitudes que la sociedad a dicho que son feas o malas o que te dejan ciego, somos muy hipocritas todos, nos decimos que entendemos que aceptamos, para entender para aceptar primero hay que saber empatizar, y no quedarnos en nuestro mundo, porque cada persona es un mundo y si se le quiere ofrecer una amistad o algun tipo de relaccion se la tendras o se la tendremos que dar desde su mundo no desde el nuestro.
Cuando ayudamos a alguien es porque nos sentimos llenos ayudando a esa persona, por lo cual nadie hace nada gratis
…well all human life enters this world through a female
womb……including Christ…….as men do not possess a womb…..how do homosexual men propose to perpetuate the human race? Female genetics encodes the embryo´s cells telling them to form the different organs.
Yes, I speak with the authority the Universe gives me, I give it a voice, and science will back me up! I could say a lot of things about female DNA, but I don´t feel like it. And now I´m leaving this forum because my brillant mind gets easily bored…and I´m really bored with this issue. Just one last thing, I do love good men. I have a wonderful husband and wonderful sons and I love them all. And I´m really perstered with the fact that, they all will die because of the bad energy others create while working against the universal ecology and the natural order of things.
it’s spelled brilliant, and rather than in your mind, more time in your heart might help with some of your issues.
How do homosexual men propose to perpetuate the human race? We don’t Caroline. That is the task of whichever group of people chooses to take it on. That is largely heterosexual people, but increasingly, gay and lesbian couples have the opportunity to raise children – either biologically their own or adopted. Why though should everyone reproduce – there are plenty of humans on the planet, plenty of people having multiple children. There is no need for homosexual men to participate in the perpetuation of the human race. We can, and do, however contribute a heck of a lot to making the human race and this ball of rock on which we find ourselves a better place to live. Caroline, by all means, leave the forum, but in staying you might learn a little bit so that you too can contribute to the beauty and diversity of this world.
I love a man,i’m a man.Since from roman empire was like this and maybe before it.Do not exist homosexuality,streight.exist who you are and that’s it.My boyfriend is from Sydney and i’m from Roma.LOVE WIN
Comments that say much while considering little are certainly not from a place of experience. Unfortunately this is how judgment comes into being. It is healthy to consider the masculine and feminine within each of creation: beyond ego.
People that believe that they can speak on behalf of the universe are extremely dangerous. Karma teaches compassion not judgment.
Homosexuality and heterosexuality are patriarchal concepts of separation. The search for truth is far more detailed and far richer.
After causing the downfall of the matriarchal age and the natural order of things, bringing death to mankind (yes, the patriarchal system is the cause of human death), the patriarchal warlords originated, and then their descendants promoted, a form of intimacy which, in an energetic sense, is essencially wrong. Homosex was created to mock the universal order of things and to mock women. The natural order is, men should be able to feed women with energy on every level, sometimes practical, sometimes emotional and intimate, the latter taking the form of pleasure. In this exchange, the woman is energised and remains young and the man receives the energy of her approval and also stays young, as the woman has reserves of energy with which to work her magic, bringing life and healing. The patriarchal way is basically for the man to conquer and dominate the woman and to feed from her energy, so she is poisoned and he receives the energy of her contempt, which ages him, so they both die. So, gay men are incarnations of men that in past lives tortured and murdered women. Many now trying to pay off karma acting as really sensitive ladies… I´m afraid it will not work because the Universe is not easily mocked. What about lesbians? Well, they are not that bad. Many are incarnations of women that suffered so much under patriarchal manipulation that they just are very afraid of men. But there are women, that in past lives accepted male domination and even could profit from it, and in other incarnations decided to be lesbians in order to dominate other women. So, there are two types of lesbians but just one type of gay men.
Are you for real? Reincarnation? Past lives? Why try to blame it on past histories and not concentrate on the now? Why are you trying to compartmentalize so tightly the laws of the Universe? There is no Universal, there is just random evolution that wants to improve itself over the millennia. Maybe gays and lesbian are filling a vacuum that heterosexuals leave in every society (it’s always been there historically and they have always been there too).
It’s not all black and white with one middle grey tone. There is no black and white: it’s all shades of greys and blues and yellows and whites and reds and greens and purples and you can continue on your own, granted that you stop trying to make sense of something you shouldn’t try to explain but to accept and value for it’s good.
Good luck.
if homosexuality were wrong, then it would not exist in a world full and complete with love.
if we are not in a world full and complete with love, then every man takes partial responsibility for this.
Dear Paulo,
I am copying here an article that i have written for my blog.
I have read your books and have been exposed to beutiful and spritual thoughts. I am a fan of your wrtings.
I would be extremely happy to receive ur responses on this peice of writing.
Human Sexuality: A Gift of God
(Christian Reflections on Different Sexual Orientations)
On the 2nd July 2009, the Delhi High Court pronounced a historic judgement to amend the nearly 150 year-old colonial times law of section 377 in the Indian Penal Code (IPC) and decriminalise private consensual sex between people of the same sex. On hearing the judgement, there has been a mixed reaction from diverse segments of society. Gay rights activists were overjoyed by the judgement and said it is a way forward in their struggle for equality; most religious leaders opposed the move, calling homosexuality “unnatural” and a “mental sickness”; while political parties sang their tunes of expediency by either being neutral or outright opposed to the judgement. The media has aired several discussions and debates on this issue affecting lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) persons, portraying a diversity of perspectives by celebrities in the film industry, social activists, religious representatives and politicians. Those in favour of the Delhi High Court judgement described the moment as a new beginning for an inclusive community, and those who were against it stuck to their guns using scriptures and notions of the will of God, tradition, culture, morality, religion, anti-creation, etc. In such a situation as this, when so much of the Christian Church has denied the existence of sexual minorities, I wonder: what would have Jesus done? This reflection is from the perspective of a young, pastoral & ecumenical learner. This is purely my own individual position and does not reflect stand or position of any Church in India, neither is reflected to contradict any people or institution’s ideas or ideologies.
Gay and lesbian issues are no longer behind closed doors in India, for these brothers and sisters have come out of culturally imposed closets to profess their sexual orientations and identities. Despite all the opposition, some of the younger generations in our society are slowly accepting the reality of these friends and are able to respect them for who they are. However, such acceptance has been minimal when compared to the resistance these our friends have faced from other quarters. The Indian Union Health Ministry last year even proposed “abolishing homosexuality,” for it claimed that HIV and AIDS was increasing due to homosexuality. The proposal was met with severe criticism from all quarters.
The Church teaches that we must love all human beings, for all are created in the image of God. Yet our same Church has largely been closed and resistant to gay lesbian realities, for it often teaches that homosexuality is unscriptural, unethical, unnatural and un-spiritual. Global Church councils and communions have been divided over the issues raised by the existence of varieties of sexualities, and many try to shy away from addressing them. I also heard someone say, “A homosexual Bishop is too much for a Church to think of.” Is such a statement consistent with God’s command to love and to acknowledge the image of God in all? As Christians are we able to respect our friends in Christ whose sexual orientation and identity may be different from our own? Are we willing to welcome them into our communities and accept their God-given gifts based on our common baptism and oneness in Christ? On the contrary, too often we contribute to discrimination against them, openly criticise their sexual orientations and identities, expose them to public condemnation, allow them to be branded as non-humans, and do not protest when vicious, derogatory remarks are made about them. Is there a way out of claiming a theology of inclusive love while living a theology of condemnation and exclusion? Is there a way forward?
Let us analyse a situation addressed by Jesus in his times, for such an analysis will provide clues for a way forward in the midst of today’s issues arising on different sexual orientations. In John 8:1-11, when a woman caught in adultery was brought to him for judgement, Jesus tells the religious leaders who brought the woman before him to be the first to throw a stone at her if they were without sin. On hearing this, everyone in the gathered crowd turned away, beginning with the elders, who were usually firmly committed to keep the status quo in place. Only Jesus alone stood in solidarity with that woman, for he neither condemned her nor sang the tune of the religious leaders in branding her a sinner. Jesus asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go, and do not sin again.”
1.Jesus does not condemn by virtue of one’s body. Jesus could have easily condemned the woman and joined a mob in stoning her to death, for she was caught in an act of adultery. But what if this woman was forced into the act? And why did the religious leaders not also bring before Jesus for judgement and potential stoning to death the man with whom the woman had allegedly had sexual relations? If Jesus had gone along with the testing and goading of the religious leaders, the forces of man’s aggression and patriarchy would have bruised the woman’s body to death. Imagine, this woman would have been battered and utterly traumatized by men and would have experienced unimaginable pain all over her body. Perhaps because Jesus perceived the truth and heart of the matters before him, he did not judge by virtue of the woman’s body, but by virtue of the spirit and context of the situation.
2.Jesus does not condemn by virtue of written letters. When the religious leaders brought the woman before Jesus, they accused her of the crime of adultery and quoted from their religious laws that the penalty for such a crime was to be stoned to death. Jesus could have endorsed the written law by advocating: “Let it be so as it is written in the law.” On the contrary, for Jesus, life and life-giving spirit superseded the written laws of scripture. Jesus, as the Word who became flesh, has come to fulfil the law, all the more for the sake of life and life-enriching experiences. Jesus addressed the situation of the woman cast before him by testy religious leaders ready to condemn her by contextually translating the will of God in a way that was relevant for his times; for he knew that the revelation of God is continuous and dynamic. Moreover, when the religious leaders quoted their ancient, provocative scriptures, Jesus responded by casually scribbling with his finger on the ground, for he knew that the spirit of life- giving is above the letter of the law that would discriminate against and destroy a person.
3.Jesus does not condemn by virtue of the majority views. Although the religious leaders cite Moses’ law – that anyone caught in adultery was to be stoned to death – there is no evidence that such stoning actually took place on a regular basis in Jesus’ day. Nevertheless, it was commonly understood that adultery was a sin. Blanket condemnation for such behaviour was the majority’s viewpoint in Jesus’ time. In addressing the situation of the woman cast before him, surrounded by a crowd in the temple, Jesus was not carried away by the cultural viewpoint of the majority, but was rather the only single man who opposed the majority’s preconceived notions that would have condemned her, though Jewish law also required an irreproachable trial before carrying out any punishment. Jesus was a revolutionary and always took risks to subvert the things that deter life. Perhaps, on that day in the temple, if Jesus would have joined the chorus of the religious leaders’ legalistic, scriptural and political arguments, he would have been a hero in their sight. But rather, he decided to be bold, to be singled out, and to take a stand on behalf of the one who otherwise would have been discriminated against and victimised.
4.Jesus does not condemn the victimised, the discriminated against, and the marginalized, but listens to the most vulnerable and stands in solidarity. When Jesus was left alone with the woman, by asking “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?”, for the first time Jesus invited the bleeding woman to speak. There was no space provided to this woman by the religious leaders for her to express her feelings and pain. Seeing that all who would have condemned the woman – and even killed her – had left the scene, one after the other, Jesus gave the woman the opportunity to speak for herself, building within her a source of tranquillity and trust in relationship to him. When she answered “no one [is left to condemn] Lord”, Jesus assured her that neither did he condemn her. Jesus did not condemn the victimised, discriminated against, and marginalized woman, but invited her to give voice to her own experience and stood in solidarity with her. Listening to those who have been victimised and discriminated against is the strength of Jesus. Perhaps by listening we ourselves may come to know more about the issues of our day and what we learn may allow us to be more open to new light and truth. Jesus strengthened the woman by telling her to go her way and from then on not to sin any more. He wanted her to live a life of dignity in her locality. Jesus respected the image of God in her, equal to that in any other person, and boosted her depressing life by affirming her worth, dignity, self-respect and self-determination to live life in all its fullness.
After carefully analysing this case in point, we draw some implications regarding how Jesus might have dealt with sexually diverse people today. Let me be explicit that I do not want to draw parallels between people of different sexual orientations and identities and the woman caught in adultery in Jesus’ day. Sexual orientation and identity are inherent characteristics of humankind, separate from sexual behaviours. The rationale in choosing this passage from Bible, is the kind of a different situation Jesus addressed, where the religious heads sought a judgement, just like the people seeking judgement on section 377 of IPC.
1.Jesus would not condemn people of different sexual orientations by virtue of their bodies. Bodies are gifts of God to people, temples of the Spirit, and sexuality, including sexual orientation, is an aspect of our God-given embodiment. Heterosexuals and people of different sexual orientations are born with the same gifts from God, all part of the natural diversity of God’s creation that God called “very good.” Scientific studies demonstrate that sexual orientation is an innate characteristic. Persons who discover that they are “naturally” heterosexual are no different than persons who discover an inbuilt gay or lesbian sexual orientation. Just as heterosexual persons have the freedom to self-identify as such, so our LGBT friends know that they have been born the way they are. Surely Jesus would have respected these our friends as people made in the full image of God. Jesus would not condemn people by virtue of their bodies, whether they are born as male, female or otherwise. When 5-12% of people globally are born with sexual orientations other than heterosexual, let us respect them for who they are.
2.Jesus would not condemn people of different sexual orientations by virtue of written scriptures. Most but not all religious communities oppose and condemn people who are not heterosexual by appealing to their beliefs and traditions rooted in their own written scriptures. Yet, for Jesus, scriptures were the record of the experience of God’s activity by particular communities in particular contexts. The gospels are full of accounts of Jesus’ reinterpretations of Jewish scriptures applied to persons and situations he encountered. Therefore, when people of different sexual orientations today share the dire reality of their lives and their contextual struggle for equality, it is easy to imagine that Jesus would have allowed for the fresh revelation of God to illuminate his way in addressing this struggle. It is easy to picture that Jesus would have championed the cause of life and equality whatever personal risk might be required. I believe Jesus would have transcended tradition, culture, religion, etc. and would stand in solidarity with people of different orientations, for he condemns discrimination done to anyone on any account. For Jesus, scriptures are to promote life as he himself did in his preaching, teaching and healing ministries, and scriptures should not be used as a stumbling block to deter life in all its fullness.
3.Jesus would not condemn people of different sexual orientations by virtue of a majority view. Today many of those who oppose and condemn LGBT persons claim that these friends’ self-acknowledged identities are against nature and that the majority of people are opposed to them. It is hard to believe that Jesus would have been carried away by the winds of majority thinking or that he would have condemned sexual minorities on account of popular opinion. When many people argue that LGBT persons’ claims of authentic self-discovery and identity are “unnatural”, against procreation and the laws of life, I believe Jesus would differ from the majority view. For he carefully analyses every situation, deeply knows people and their contexts, and responds accordingly. Even though he may be the only one to do so, Jesus would stand for life and justice.
4.Jesus would not condemn people of different sexual orientations who are victimized, discriminated against, and marginalized, but would listen to them and stands in solidarity with them. Jesus’ primary mission to this world is to stand by the least, the last and the lost in society. He has come to release captives from the prisons of discrimination and oppression. Jesus would have allowed LGBT people to speak up for themselves, for he listens and cares for them. Listening certainly makes Jesus to stand by them. Jesus truly would have stood in solidarity with people of different sexual orientations and identities, even if the Church would not stand with them; even if cultures and traditions would not stand with them; even if politicians would not stand with them; and even if the religions of the world, including Christianity would not stand with them. Jesus would have stood solely and singly with these LGBT persons and would not condemn them on the basis of their sexual orientation or identity. Jesus would embrace them, for he would affirm that they are the ones equally created in the image of God, like him.
Theological Implications for Justice Action
At this point, before we conclude, I would like to explore how we might apply these theological reflections to further strengthen our commitment for the cause of equality among sexual minorities who are gifts to humankind. The whole discussion raises three prominent questions, each of which requires careful attention, for all of them are parts of the theological wrestling within me.
1.Are different sexual orientations a gift of God?
2.How do we understand body theologically?
3.What does it mean, “Do not sin again”?
Due to limitation of space and time, let me just reflect on the third question only.
Do not sin again
On Vidhana Soudha building in Bangalore, it is engraved on the main wall, as “Government’s work is God’s work”. This inscription caught my attention and I find myself reflecting on several implications drawn from it. One such implication is that anything against government is sin, for anything against God is sin. Therefore, any resistance against government’s orders is sin, and people’s movements against government policies are sins. Another implication is that the government’s word is the final verdict on any matter concerning sin. This latter implication in particular helped illuminate for me the scripture passage in John 8:1-11 and what Jesus might have meant when he told the woman to “sin no more.”
In Jesus’ time, the inscription written on Jewish religious people’s hearts was “Mosaic law is God’s law”; anything against it was sin and had to be condemned. When Jesus said to the woman who had been caught in adultery: “Has no one condemned you? Neither do I condemn you. Go, and do not sin again”, Jesus at the end pronounced a judgement. But it likely was not what religious people would have expected him to say. By not condemning the woman according to the Mosaic law, Jesus was, in a way, condemning the crowd of people surrounding him in the temple, including the religious leaders, who were sinning more and more at the expense of vulnerable sexual minorities. By announcing, “sin no more” to the woman, Jesus was confronting the act of adultery, where a powerless woman could easily be forced into it. Sin in Jesus’ times was understood as something against Mosaic law. Therefore, Jesus could have said to the woman: “Even though no one condemned you, according to the law you have sinned, and I shall forgive you.” But Jesus said to the woman “sin no more/ do not sin again.” Jesus gave that woman life which was far above the written laws and written sins.
In today’s context, what is the measure to be used to pronounce what is sin and what is against God? Some religious pundits say “Anything against nature is sin.” But who decides, and how is it determined, what is inherent to nature and what is “against” nature? The questions are ongoing. But Jesus’ words “do not sin again” offered the woman the opportunity to uphold her identity and dignity and opened up life where only the forces of oppression had once been. Jesus neither names the sin nor calls the woman a sinner. Therefore, let no one ever call any one, irrespective of their sexual orientation or identity, a sinner. Let God alone be the judge.
Like Jesus, let us work to be in solidarity with LGBT friends, respect their sexuality, accept them as human beings made in the image of God, and welcome them into our communities. Let us not diminish their self-respect, dignity and self-determination, of which they are in need like anyone else. Let us give up condemning them for, after all, they are our co-human beings created equally in the image of God. I pray that the Church, as the foretaste of God’s reign here on earth, would take the lead in standing for the rights of persons of different sexual orientations and identities, for since they have been excluded by every section of people in the society.
May God, who does not condemn human beings because of their sexuality but who is the giver of the gift, teach us to respect the dignity of our LGBT friends. And may God grant our churches the love and grace to accept them into our communities and to fight for their rights. Just and inclusive communities will still be only a dream if we do not accept people of different sexual orientations and identities into our churches’ fold. Truly, sexuality is a gift of God, distributed to humankind in splendid varieties.
Rev.Raj Bharath Patta,
Executive Secretary,
Commission on Dalits,
National Council of Churches in India,
Post Box # 205,
Civil Lines,
Nagpur. 440 001
Maharashtra, INDIA.
Ph# 0091 712 2561464
Very well said reverend. I have somehow seen some light. As a homosexual myself, I have been into a point where I questioned God and religion. And I also experienced feeling that my spirit is lost and hollow.
My mother is a conservative and religious person and she has always told me that homosexuality is a sin and that I have to change myself and reconcile with God – go to confession and turn my back on homosexuality and to receive communion. She has always told me that she loved me so much she does not want my soul to burn in hell. She wanted me to go back to the right path. To me, it meant that I was being condemned. My mother saw me as a sinner when all I have done was what I thought was right – live my life without having to harm anyone and help those in need and love the people around me – which I think is the way of Christ.
Aside from physiological and emotional needs, my spiritual needs have to be fed too. I felt like I didn’t belong and my soul was drifting aimlessly. And I have asked myself what Jesus would have done to people like me, had he existed in our times. I could have opened the Bible to shed some light to the many questions echoing in my mind. But I didn’t, knowing that my mother argued to me that it’s in the Bible that God only created man and woman.
Yes, He created only man and woman. But I do believe homosexuality is not a sin. There are a lot of people out there who live by the book and the world needs people like you to orient them with the truth. There is also a lack of explanation as to why homosexuality exists – is it truely a gift from God or are the explanations limited to hormonal changes in the body? People like me are in constant search for answers and it is hard to live our lives normally when people around us distant themselves as if we have been struck with leprosy.
Thank you for enlightening me with some answers to questions I have frequently asked myself.
More power and God bless you.
1 Corinthians 6 9-20 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Sexual Immorality
12″Everything is permissible for me”—but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”—but I will not be mastered by anything. 13″Food for the stomach and the stomach for food”—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14By his power God raised the Lord from the dead, and he will raise us also. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.”[b] 17But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. 19Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
1 corintios 6 9-20 No se dejen engañar. Ustedes bien saben que los que hacen lo malo no participarán en el reino de Dios. Me refiero a los que tienen relaciones sexuales prohibidas, a los que adoran a los ídolos, a los que son infieles en el matrimonio, a los hombres que se comportan como mujeres, a los homosexuales, a los ladrones, a los que siempre quieren más de lo que tienen, a los borrachos, a los que hablan mal de los demás, y a los tramposos. Ninguno de ellos participará del reino de Dios.11 Y algunos de ustedes eran así. Pero Dios les perdonó esos pecados, los limpió y los hizo parte de su pueblo. Todo esto fue posible por el poder del Señor Jesucristo y del Espíritu de nuestro Dios. Agrademos a Dios con todo lo que somos 12 Algunos de ustedes dicen: “Soy libre de hacer lo que quiera”. ¡Claro que sí! Pero no todo lo que uno quiere conviene, y por eso no permito que nada me domine.13 También dicen: “La comida es para el estómago, y el estómago es para la comida”. ¡Claro que sí! Pero Dios va a destruir las dos cosas. En cambio, el cuerpo no es para que lo usemos en relaciones sexuales prohibidas. Al contrario, debemos usarlo para servir al Señor, pues nuestro cuerpo es de él.14 Y así como Dios hizo que Jesucristo volviera a vivir, así también a nosotros nos dará vida después de la muerte, pues tiene el poder para hacerlo.
I look at he people as human beings. I believe God does the same. He does not care who we r inside. We r all just human for him. So why do we divide people into such groups? Do we try to condemn them or to accuse them?
Love really comes in different forms…Priests devote themselves to God. Can we say that they have strange orientation? No of course…they even do not know what sex does God have. ( Of course in this situation i imagine God as human. In fact he is not.)
So there just one thing and it’s love…we can love…We have to love. We love the one who makes as know ourselves. Who is close to our soul..and who just do not care who we r…
As a human beeing, are we not all androgyn,
more or less?
Isn’t the question of homosexuality merely a question about the Anima and the Animus inside ourself and our ability in the moment to percieve and confirm the different aspects of our own beeing?
When we are in balance, without fear, is it possible to not embrace the Anima and the Animus with true and equal love?
Why is the question about homosexuality almost always a question about sexuality and not about love, balance and differerent aspects of ourselves?
From the Words of a genuine Sufi Master, now beyond these realms, he joked that man must be Homosexual!
To love man is to love God, since he is made in his image!
I think that Sexuality should be a private affair, i don’t personally understand the need to broadcast ones tendencies. Most Islamic societies have it ingrained that to talk of ones personal life is to compromise and cheapen ones self. Whilst nobody should be in a closet, why vulgarise oneself by self promotion?
I feel having looked at Schoolfriends who subsequently came out as gay, that from 12-13 it was already obvious that they did not form relationships to girls in the way the majority would. It does not make them lesser men for it.
What makes a man less is the integrity of his actions. To overindulge, to be so ruled by lust that one descends to the level of beasts- this is what is terrible in Gods eyes.
The unfortunate thing for a male homosexual is that the capacity of others to corrupt and violate his dignity with excesses of debauchery is very much higher than between female homosexuals although heterosexuals are also more than capable of excesses.
The bottom factor that corrupts sexuality and cheapens it is ultimately man, as a pose to womans attitude to sex.
In short many many men are profoundly primitive, ruled by their basest instincts, and predatory and exploitative in nature- and it is to these impulses that i feel many male homosexuals are the victim of , though they themselves may be seeking love or companionship.
In days gone by, a male with issues of sexuality may have shelved them with a life of piety and renuciation. In this era of the ego and the pursuit of pleasure, many of these milder lifestyles have been shelved, leaving often open to confused young men a dangerous world of excess and exploitation as the only outlet for their sexual identity.
God does not differentiate mens or womens sexuality, but only the quality of their love.
Dear Mr. Paulo Coelho
I read before about some speculations regarding the relation between some sins (bad behaviors and bad words and alcohol drinking, homosexuality) and high centers in the brain and even chromosomes. It was not cause effect relationship at all. It was not evidence based medicine. It was only speculations.
Then I discussed this issue with my friend. She told me: God never put the liability and tendency in the genes and brains of some persons to do sins. Others do not have these. Then come at the end and be against our acts. That is not fair. And god is fair.
At this time, we could define what is sin. Also, we realized that sin is not born in us or come with our soul. Even, we are born naturally native manner to be good.
I was about to write this note on your previous forum of homosexuality while preparing some new series on culture. Then, I searched on forum pages by (CTRL + F) to find the words Muslim, Islam, religion. I did this because I thought from the start that many persons will recognize action upon their religion. Either right or wrong.
Then you and your visitors gave us other fruitful discussion on religion. This was good to realize how different persons think.
……Thanks Paulo Coelho
Hi everyone!
I know I’m a little late in replying, but I couldn’t miss this passionate debate :).
I think homosexuality should not be considered a taboo, it has always existed, and contrary to what some people think, it isn’t some sort of degeneration of the “original path”, which to some is heterosexuality.
Deep down inside we all have bisexual tendencies, some of us are just more in touch with the heterosexual side because of nurture and nature, others lean more towards homosexuality because of nature.
Also, the most homophobic people might be really wishing for the exact opposite, and if they tried a homosexual relationship they might even like it! Some of these people condemn homosexuality, but are not faithful in their own heterosexual relationships.
Homosexuality harms no one, and the most important thing is not harming ourselves or others with our actions.
I’m not sure if this is relevant.
I have been frequenting this blog a lot but I never had the chance to comment on things, just read. I love to read.
But today, I remembered a priest who once talked about homsexuality. He said that same sex relationships are okay as long as there was no sex involved.
His stand on the topic was that sex is only done for reproduction and in having sex with the same sex, (I sound funny) you don’t get the chance to reproduce. That was the only thing he did not like with the whole homosexuality issue. :D
I did more damage fighting against my same-sex relationship, which is in fact true love, than I ever did by accepting it. By accepting it, I have healed myself and my partner. I don’t know if it’s “normal,” if it’s “ok,” but it’s love. Our family and friends are happy with us being together because they want us to be happy and they know we are good for each other. I’ve lived a life of pain, and to continue to fight this would only bring more pain. It seems to me that God wants me to accept the relationship that He has given me.
Also, please remember that when you’re talking about “us” and “them” — “we” are here too. Those of other sexual orientations. I think so much prejudice comes from the fact that people do not realize they are surrounded by people of many different orientations, because so many keep it so private. You surely have loved ones who are gay, lesbian, or bisexual, and you don’t even know it.
I agree. Thanks for sharing your personal view on same-sex relationship. There have been comments made that people have become gay or lesbian due to confusion, frustration, trauma and I always felt that the confusion and frustration has come from fighting this love. People who condemn same-sex relationships kill love. The more damage the more time it takes to heal.
God has nothing to do with our sexuality, if god realy exist, what I have my serious doubts.
Thank you very much!
Walter dos Santos
its theirs bodies, so they can do whatever they want, homo sex, hetero sex, **ing suicide, doesn’t matter as long they don’t bother other people, sexuality is something you live with your boy/girlfriend in private.
Homosexuality is not a fault.
Eterosexuality it’s not normal, just more common; but it’s also true that God or Nature or whatever we want to call it, made children born from a man and woman.
So even if we had big evolution from prehistoric man, I think that we still remain “evolved” (or simply more complicate) animals, and we still have in our DNA needs, pulsions,habbits tipical of animals.
I prefere to see it under this point of wiev.
I see man and woman as two columns of the same Temple; they’re the same, and they’re different at the same time. They’re both different but necessair to support the Temple.
They are able to give life not for my choice of for society’s choice, but for some reason that I don’t know and I don’t want to break.
There will be a reason, and maybe one day I’ll know. By now I have faith in Love.
Said this, the same Faith in Love makes me say that Love is everything and is in everything; his/her signs are everywhere, so it’s possible that it will grow also between persons of the same sex.
So no guilty for homosexuality, but I have faith in the Law that established that children must come from the love between two persons of opposite sex.
One day I hope I’ll have explanation for this.
Love.
Cris
PS Mr Coelho, where is Paul from Austria gone?
He’s he all right?
I came frome my holydays yesterday, and i haven’t read anything from him on your blog.
Love.
Chris
I can’t understand homosexuality is still a taboo. I think love is essentiel in everybody’s life. Love doesn’t judge people.
All the best,
Lex
Part of me is masculine, part of me is feminine, as is the case with everybody. The masculine part of me searches feminity and vice versa. I have only been in heterosexual relationships, but generally speaking I am physically more attracted to women. In emotional level, I prefer men, or at least masculinity. I couldn’t imagine having a relationship with a woman (unless it’s something like in the movie Vicky, Christina, Barcelona). I do wish to become a mother and stay balanced in my life, so being with a man is a more natural ‘choise’ for me, altho I would love to experience sex with a woman at least once in my life. Of course I do not wish to cheat on my lovely man, so this will most likely only stay as a fantasy.
I’d be very curious to know what is your view on the following issue, Paulo, do you think everybody has homosexual fantasies? To me it would seem very natural, taken the philosophy that everybody has the feminine and masculine side. Some just deny it due to circumstances. I also wonder if I am doing wrong to myself by not going with my desire to be with a woman. I will not cheat on my man, for sure, and seems silly to throw everything away because of one experiment. I guess I have my answer right there. Thank you for the interesting topic!
PS. Haven’t yet read other replies, so I apologize if someone’s already covered this.
Hey
you mentioned the movie Vicky Christina Barcelona, and I had to reply to your post because we recently used the movie as example when we discussed this topic among friends. I think people are attracted to people, both women and men, because if soembody is attractive and desirable, it doesn’t depend on their sex, but on their self-esteem, their love to themselves and to others, on many other factors. I have an amazing relationship with my boy and I like sexy men, but I am also attracted to women when they get my attention. First I was confused by it, but then I realized that it is not about the sex, but about that “something” that people radiate, and when their waves fit with mine, I feel attracted to them. The society keeps telling us everywhere, that heterosexual relationship is the norm, is the natural order, but it is just the fabrication of the civilisation, it is the economically most succesful model to support the society in its current form. And I was never the one to meet the norms … ;-)
Viola, try to talk to your man about it, maybe you’ll be surprised by his reaction, maybe he feels the same. My man told me to do what makes me happy and doesn’t mind me being with a woman, he knows that I’ll always come home to him :-)He doesn’t feel that it would be cheating, after all he knows about everything. To love means to let go.
Thanks Paulo for this discussion!
Paulo Cohelo abre un debate sobre la homosexualidad en su blog
http://www.noticiasgrancanaria.com/2009/08/el-foro-homosexual-de-paulo-coelho.html
Entrevista colectiva a Paulo Coelho!!(para fans) Clarín 16.08.09 en español
http://www.clarin.com/diario/2009/08/16/sociedad/s-01979417.htm
Gracias, no la habia visto.
besos
Collective interview from Clarin (daily newspaper from Argentina) made on the 16.08.09 in Spanish.
Answers from the Clarin’s readers
Coelho – “I write to confront my own dreams” -
A collective interview with the world’s best selling author that talks about his life and his passions.
For a large numbers of faithful followers of the Brasilian’s author Paulo Coelho, being able to speak with him is almost an impossible dream, however, that wish became reality through a contest organised by CLarin. Hundreds of readers sent their questions by mail. Fifteen of them were chosen, discussing a variety of themes.
The readers whose questions were selected will receive as a prize an autographed book by the author.
Juan Bidart Temperley -
“What place does silence hold in your life? Are you expressing it with words or do you like to explore other languages?
I love silence. I often need it, however I understand fully what you are trying to convey – you are making reference to the use of not always talking – of course, absolute silence does not exist -
However, silence can be dangerous, it can totally allienate us from the world.
I will quote a Brazilian poet Carlos Drummond de Andrache :”Accept that the vegetables like the weight of silence. However, you need to have a dialogue when loneliness becomes a vice.”
Maria Alejandra Barreto -
There was a period when you said you had nothing and you were the richest man in the world. Now that you are rich, what do you have?
I am still the richest man in the world because I have – thanks to God – love, a job that I like, freedom and the simplest pleasures of life – such as, walking, for example -
The other day I was listening to a group of guitarists in a main square in Geneva. I stayed there for nearly an hour because I realised they were playing for pleasure, that the flowers adorning the place were there for the pleasure of adorning, that the people who were applauding were there for the pleasure of applauding.
The truth is tht the best things in klife are free.
It is obvious that I have much more money than before but wealth is not measured by the amount of money that you have – only for the use it gives -
I see some of my friends who are rich that spend the whole day in front of the screen trying to become wealthier operating through the Stock Exchange.
In reality, these people are poor, although they own all the wealth in the world.
Juan M.Peria Capitol -
Which writers managed to leave a trademark in your narrative?
Borges is the writer I admire the most, he is the writer I worship – without any doubt – I believe that all the books I have read up to now have left in me a footprint, an invisible one.
And talking about writers that I have read – again, it will be – Henry Miller – that showed me that writing is something more than an exercise in style -.
Jorge Amado – that taught me how to understand Brazil –
William Blake – the example of the importance of inspiration and of the tyranny of memory -
George Orwell – who does not limit himself with writing but practices to live what he wrote -
Marina Tamasotti Capital -
Which individual in your life inspired you for “The Alchemist”?
The idea of the book emerged from a story by Jorge Luis Borges who, himself got inspired by the “One thousand and one nights “stories.
That story also is present in Jasidica, one of Rumi’s text, etc. When I wrote the book what I wanted to know was why I had spent so much time dreaming of becoming a writer instead of starting to write.
But in this life, everything comes at the right time.
I am the shepherd that walks through the desert, meeting with Crystal Shop Merchant, that embarks on an adventure, finds love, meet the Alchemist and then managed to realise my dream.
Agustina Miranda Capital -
What is Coelho like on a working day? he says in one of his books :”Things come out better when I am under pressure”.
Not long ago, I wrote a blog about what one of my day looks like.Before, I needed to be without stress, nowadays it is not as important. In the morning, I wake-up and I get up straight away, walk, surf the net a little bit, do my archery with the bow and arrows, have a light breakfast and then I start writing. I write only if I have something to say.
Otherwise, I meet with friends, read, go to the movies. I always dine with a good wine, go out again for a walk and finish the night reading a newspaper. I love the press.
sir, i’ve read four of your books. this is one of my question: do you think it’s alright if you’re doing something that is not right according to others and other matters but according to your own philosophy, it’s alright as long as your not hurting anybody and that they didn’t know anything about it? this is a serious question of mine and i do hope that you will leave me a message because i’m always wanting answers for that but there’s no one i can ask.
Yes, you answered your own question. And I agree
Hurting anybody I hope means hurting nor himself. Right?
I look at homosexual as a part of being human, being alive.
Although we could not tell if it is a sickness or choice or you-are-born-with-it-thing, we need to respect them, because they are equal to us, and maybe we are not even better than them.
Let God do the judging, not us.
I have had a homosexual relation. It felt good. But it wasn’t always easy, because of my christian background. My parents always know that I was different and when I told them that I had a boyfriend they said: ‘It doesn’t matter son. We always did know that you were different. You’re much to sweet for a boy.
They embrassed my boyfriend with all the love they good give.
Homosexuality isn’t a choice, you are or aren’t, there is no compromise.
I was an active member of a christian organisation for christian homosexuals. It was a great time to tell the congregation about homosexuality and how much christian homosexuals love their religion. God loves everybody and for Him it doesn’t count that you’re homosexual, He loves you as human.
My relation ended after three years. It was then that I met my wife. Yes, I am now married and the father of four wonderful kids. When I met my wife she knew about my homosexual relation and it didn’t make a difference for her.
Any one has the right to be what they want to be, everyone is free to choose how to live and we people should never judge others based on their choices in life!
As long as this person is doing no harm to others they are free to live the way they like.
but ofcourse that does not happen in our world we are so cruel and judgmental and we behave like gods.I am the goddess of myself and i beleive in my own god what about you?
The same for me Esther.<3
Hi I’m writing not to contest on whether being a gay is a sin against God or not. I’m a lesbian and how I finally decided what I want to be took many years of deciphering and understanding myself. It started in gradeschool when I was only eleven years old. I was studying in a catholic school ran by nuns. When I entered that school at five, the nun who influenced my being was already a school principal. I was an ordinary kid in school and didn’t excel academically. But I believe that I was a sensitive young girl and understood life a little ahead of my classmates. At eleven, I started to receive letters from her everyday telling me how she feels about me, how much she enjoys my company while I’m waiting for my mom to fetch me, how much she believes in me and my thoughts about life and that she loves me. As an eleven-year old kid, I thought of that love as a motherly love and wasn’t malicious about it. She told me though to keep her letters from classmates, teachers and my parents. Everyday we exhanged letters saying our i love yous and how much we adore each other. I kept her letters in my school bag and she didn’t miss a day writing me. If she’ll be gone for meetings for 5 days, she’d come back with 5 letters and gifts. I find her love awesome but I didn’t realize then that she felt something else for me. Inevitably, her letters were discovered by mom and showed them to dad. Both were furious and told me that the nun is either a lesbian or wants me to be a lesbian and satisfy her sexual needs. Up to now, I wished my parents didn’t tell me why they had to transfer me to another school an island away from them.My innocent mind struggled then.Sexual needs? Possible because there was one instance that she asked me to stay a night with her when the other nuns went to a retreat. My mom not knowing the situation then didn’t allow me. The nun followed me and my life with her letters through high school and college telling same feelings and setting time to see me. From the day my parents discovered the letters, every night I wondered who am I, my person, my sexuality and it was a battle inside. I did miss her but was scared of the consequences. During a travel I met an ex-nun who shared to me her life story. I grabbed the chance to ask her if there are lesbian nuns in the convent and she answered with a big yes and mostly (in her convent). After 17 years we finally met but things became different. I know till now I’m still special to her. But I don’t want to live a hidden life with a nun in a convent. LOL! At 33, I finally decided what sexual preference I want. I’m happy being a lesbian but sometimes, I wonder what would have I become if that nun didn’t taint my thoughts with something else.
But what you’ll leave after your life?
Angel, I am very glad that you have brought up this issue of homosexuality in convents and monasteries. Unfortunately there are many gays/lesbians ‘hiding’ in these institutions even though they have taken VOWS of celibacy. Usually this activity takes place on the ‘inside’ but also takes place on the ‘outside’ involving innocent VICTIMS like yourself.
There could be many reasons for this behaviour. For example innate tendencies drove these people to these single-sex institutions from the beginning. However I believe that it usually comes from BOREDOM, DEPRIVATION or MALADAPTATION to this kind of life which can cause all kinds of inner conflicts.
Even to this day some convents and monasteries impose a period of complete SILENCE from 9pm to 7am everyday – a practice which dates back to the Middle Ages when homosexuality was rampant. It is worth noting also that the Superiors of these insitutions are often the worst offenders because they manage to have access to more freedom than the other members.
Also not to forget the recent scandal of sexual abuse amongst Priests in the Catholic Church…
Having said all this we must remember that today there are many thousands of men and women, living in celibacy, dedicating their lives to the service of others throughout the world.
Celibacy is a difficult challenge and is not for EVERYONE.
Dear Angel, I read that you wonder what you would have become if this person had not been on your path and acted that way. Well, you can go in a private place, and put yourself in that intimate moment with yourself and the air that you breathe, with silence of your rational mind, with the powers that are within you to visualize what comes when you put yourself in that view, of not having been in relation with that person. So by going visiting that other side, you can and most probably will discover elements that we help you today in your present moment. Also, I truly believe that I cannot build and create with “IF”, with transporting on my journey in my bags regrets or doubts. I welcome them but am careful of their energy to alienate me. The path is in front of me and while on that journey I go from discovery to discovery. Now, I am here and now. I walk my way with what I am here and now. With affection, Jojo.
I appreciate your transparency!
Let the Lord learn you the art, with which He made the WHOLE…
Hmm.. I think that homosexuality is a big problem..
Im from Russia and all new things from Europe come to us after a long time. Do you know emo? They apeared in my country 7-8 years ago. Now they’re everywhere! Many people hates them, becouse of their homosexuality. I would have to say,that “гомики” (homosexuals) are hated by the biggest part of population.
So…
I dont think that its normal.
P.S.: Excuse me for my mistakes.. I know English badly)
Não sou especialista no assunto. Mas como leigo, creio que é um assunto complexo e que também esta cercado de muitas distorções e estereótipos. Por exemplo: uma mulher que gosta de esportes violentos (boxe, halterofilismo, etc.), ou exerça uma profissão considerada masculina; algumas pessoas irão duvidar da sua heterossexualidade. Assim como um homem, mais sensível, ou de comportamento delicado, também pode ter a sua masculinidade questionada.
Creio que uma coisa não tem nada a ver com a outra. Não é a sua sensibilidade, profissão, agressividade ou aparência física que vai definir a preferência sexual do indivíduo
“If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also.”
August 15th – The Assumption of Mary – Where there is Love there is God.
People who label others and judge by that label, only limit themselves and live within the limitation of their own fears.
Sure, to have your own preference is natural, but to superimpose your preference as the ‘norm’ is to be fearful of anything that differs. And you only limit yourself when you live in fear.
wow, christina that was beautifully said…
I have similar opinion..
you are absolutly right. every moment of life is uniqe, so it is better to live without any fears of our nature, sexual,or our love.
Very good point, Hildegarde! I think it is indeed the “masculine” aspect of humanity which seeks to control, which seeks to implement and uphold rigid standards (in the form of imposed social norms). Some might call it “conscience,” and this term is fine when it refers to the individual looking within and assessing their own beliefs and actions – questioning their own behavior. However, when that “conscience” is directed outward in the form of imposed moral standards it becomes a harsh and dominating – explicitly masculine – factor.
“Where is the feminine side?” you ask. Where is the Mother, who accepts her infant at birth, no matter what it looks like – who gazes down upon its wrinkled face and thinks it the most beautiful thing she has ever beheld? Where is the Mother who coddles this slimy, strange-looking little creature to her bosom and offers it nourishment, understanding and unconditional love? This quality of acceptance – this factor of unconditional love – is the feminine aspect of our humanity.
So where is it? I think it is dawning. It is reawakening as we speak. I really believe, with all my heart, that we are moving toward an era of greater understanding and comprehensive acceptance. The Lady is emerging from her flower, in the bud of which she has slumbered for millennia. In her full effluence, she will reach out her hand in grace and wipe away the need for such debates as we have seen and been a part of this week on Paulo’s blog. The Feminine is here, among us even now; we have only to wait with patience to see her emerge in her full effulgence.
I think that we are living at a very special time in history, but, as with all such eras, we are too near to what is happening to be able to perceive it fully and objectively, with accurate account of its scope and significance. If one had asked Leonardo daVinci to define the Renaissance, I don’t think that he would have been able to fully encapsulate in words, the profound significance of the era of which he was so much a part.
The Feminine is here among us now, at this very moment, Hildegarde. Trust in that, as I’m sure you do. Perhaps not everyone can perceive the shifts which are presently occurring, nor discern their end and import. Many are those who look about and declare, “The world is ending!” and I’m sure that it is, in a sense, but only to make way for a new beginning – a new way of being, a more balanced way of being human, which takes into account and makes way for the full development of the Feminine as well as the Masculine. God is turning his back upon the world now, and God’s backside is a woman.
You are always a great inspiration to me, Hildegarde.
With Much Love and Admiration,
Savita
I think it is wrong for people to treat people who are homosexual badly, to judge them or to ostrasize them – and I would like to be able to say that in all honesty I think it is beautiful and natural but deep down I don’t. To me it seems like a gender identity crisis. As though there is in part some spiritual, psychological problem that needs to be dealt with at its core. Why would nature not allow a man and a man to procreate if sex were meant to be between them? If it is natural (of nature).
Many people, not only gay people, need to refrain from certain feelings i.e. you are attracted to someone other than your spouse: your partner has been in an accident and is now a quadriplegic so sex in the normal sense is no longer possible etc. Its as though some people are given a burdon to carry, maybe something they need to learn.
I’m afraid I’m going to be politically incorrect again and say that I think children should be brought up by a mother and a father who love and respect eachother (I don’t agree with people getting married for the wrong reasons). My nephew had an absent father and was constantly clinging to the males in the family, imitating them and longing for their love. It broke my heart. Why did he not long for another mother if that were also the natural course of life? Children are not politically correct either it seems. My sister married a man who was much older than her and she admits that she always pined for a father.
I think people though, should be able to express that they are gay without fear and know that they are loved.
Katheleen, I read your comment and as if I was face to face with you, I wish to share what comes for me as I read.
What I view not natural is because I was brought to view it so and/or never stopped myself to ask myself if for me what was natural or not. For where I stand today, always keeping my mind in the purpose for me of the experience of human living, all is normal in a sense. I think the aspect of sexual act is there to divert and start debate on natural or not. We are speaking of RELATION. If someone decides to only develop his relation to God, and does not procreate, than he is a saint. But then, he is not procreating, is that not why he is a man or a wowan. If someone decides to go with the same gender or not, it is because it flows with was it there for him or her, and that is respecting an aspect that is not to be viewed only rationally.
For a child that is being raised by two of the same sex who love and respect themselves, as a child who has 2 parents of different sex that love and respect themselves, well, he is in a good place then. For that child, that relation is normal and he does not view it as anormal. That child will be confronted when he will go at the exterior, but then that is the path in which he engaged when he came in this world and I am confident that he has all the inner resources to realize himself.
You speak about spiritual and/or psychological problems. Yes, probably for some since spiritual and psychological problems are the problems of many individuals today.
For procreation, well, I view it as a gift of the Creator for those who chose to unwrap that gift. Some couples I know, and many today, refuse to take that gift, for personal and professional reasons, not only because they are not able because of a physical problem. Before, those would have been called “sinners”. In Québec, when the Catholic Church was dominant, there were families of 13 and 20 kids. My grand-father was the 22nd child of a family. The child that was coming into that big family, with parents, well, the mother did not have time to take care, it was 2 sisters, and the father was working all day in the fields, with his sons, not having time to elaborate the relation, just having the time to give orders. I have a client that was raised in that way and today he has difficulty in his relation with his wife for many reasons that comes from that relation with his father.
When you talk about “need to refrain”, well, I view it as a situation that brings one to stop before a new situation and take position having put light of both decisions, staying or leaving. I known of a wowan, my friend, who spent many years taking care of his husband that became paraplegic. She one day decided that she could no more, was to hard. She placed him and got to know a new husband. She is still there for her husband. He does not need to know, well he cannot even communicate and understand. The important thing is that she believes that life is not only negative and suffering, that she can bring in happiness and positive also. A sinner if she would have been in the past time!
Now, children should be brought up by 2 parents that love and respect each other. Yes, a perfect context, but there is no perfection since we are all going to become as the Creator. So, an ideal situation that is rare. And that is a fact in our societies.
I am divorced and since that time the father of my children is not present … and when I divorced that was part of my decision. He was present in his “role” and that is it. He took his role of Number 1 of the family, president, spiritual leader, bringing the money in, having the last word, pretexting to not have time to collaborate with me because “he” was the worker and needed rest as to me I could rest when I liked (example). And I loved that man and respected that man, but did not love me and respected me with what was important for me as a notion of “relation”. I played the Second …, and then depression, insatisfaction, frustration … spiritually and psychologically problems … I had help, and then decided that the best for my kids what to give myself the best. So, on that day I began a journey that brings me here today … and I do not regret it. I am living and feeling alive.
I have been raising my kids alone now for 8 years. My kids are in good health, but like any other human being on this planet have aspects that needs to be understood, tend to, experienced, etc …, be it spiritually and/or psychologically. But I taught my children to be sensible to their feelings, their needs, to find ways to give importance to what was there for them. So, they call their father and express their needs to see him and have time with him, to which he agrees and my children then understand that they are capable. Something that their path came to teach them, whereas for a child who has needs complied to without expressing will have to discover that path in his adult time. They are sad that it is not the other way around, but then I taught them to be sensible to their father, and to be sensible to them and express to their father what they feel. So, they tell him that they feel sad that he does not come first, and then the other day he called first and told them he wanted to see them.
I respect your way of seeing things, and I just wished to express you my way of seeing the same things. My role of mother expanded, or my female nature expanded. I viewed myself before as being a wowan having to find a man, make children, give and give, and that was my role in the Universe. Today, I view my role differently. I am a soul in a female human body that decided to give birth and that permitted to 4 souls to come back and accomplish what they have to accomplish to attain the Celest Goals. I took care of them, and still am there for them, and do not forget that me too I have to accomplish to attain the Celest Goals myself. The important thing is for me to find my place, take it and act in this Whole, not only in a little cellular thing called “family”. The Creator is the parent that will guide, instruct, etc … the only thing I can do is share with my kids … and all the kids of the Universe, if they are 2 or 99 years old.
With affection, Jojo.
I think it is wrong to treat anyone badly … we are all guilty of that sometimes prejudice comes in many shapes and forms … its not gay straight us or them we are all people who deserve the chance to be happy i am a single parent .. some things dont last and i have brought up my son .. alone for 19 years he is just about 21 he clings to no male role model in my family and there are a lot of them he knows I love him and I was there when it counted he is a poster child for a 1 parent family … as are many other kids bottom line whatever you think understand there are exceptions … none of us are perfect and these who claim to be …. hey they have got to be the elusive god we all chase ..??
Kathleen, I agree to what you said about people not marrying for the wrong reason..and to my mind, one of the ‘wrong reasons’ is to complete self..but this is the number one reason why people get married…
“he/she makes me feel complete”, we often hear people say..
“i can’t live withour her/him” is also one of the reasons why people get married…
to my mind, the most right and authentic reason to get married is love….but loving self first is the greatest love of all…that is why i don’t believe that people who get married for the first time, know exactly what “right” reasons are why they get married…I myself married for the wrong reasons ( i wanted to feel complete )… yet, completeness is being a whole person rather than a half of the two who are joined together in marriage… Completeness comes with maturity…Wholeness of being is what we need to give back to our Creator that is why it is vital that when we leave the physical, we are a “complete being” because a complete being is how our Cretore delivered us into this world to experiecne the gift of physical life…
“rights’ are only realized after the “wrongs”…some of us have the abiiity to right our wrongs and it takes a lot of inner power to do that because what is right for us are usually judged as wrong by onlookers who have no idea what hell we go through by living our lives to suit them and to suit the society and to suit the physical…
according to biology , It is commonly believed every species has a few gays in the mix ,like humans.
homoseual is normal in populations.so , it is better to respect homosexual people and allow them to live in their nature.
I read an interesting story :
Penguins are no exception. A zoo in Germany has now done what South Park failed to do with Mr. Garrison, have two gay penguins hatch an egg, and adopt it as their own chick successfully. “The adult males – Z and Vielpunkt – were given an egg which was rejected by its biological parents.” (BBC) This pair of penguins are of the Humboldt breed. This case example could possibly be used as proof that a homosexual couple could raise a child in the same manner a heterosexual couple would – ie. surrogate parents. “Since penguins split parenting work evenly, there are no traditional motherly or fatherly roles.”
“Homosexual behaviour is well documented in many different animals, but it is not understood in detail.” – Professor Stuart West, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Oxford
I enjoyed this little snippet of information. Nature is often the best guide.
thank you.
Frères d’âme
Un instant qui passe quand le temps s’arrête
Un regard qui casse quand l’amour s’apprête
Nous savions chacun que nous étions liés
Et que le destin fera de nous des alliés…
Très loin l’un de l’autre, nous avons évolué
Chacun son chemin, la rue nous a évalués
Dans la souffrance nous fûmes forgés
Et du verre du mal nous bûmes des gorgées…
La réalité fait mal, et nos larmes ont coulé
Que de tristes sorts, que de jours écoulés…
La vie est éphémère, elle fond comme un bonbon
Celui qui rend sauvage et façonne à sa façon…
Si l’amour d’un homme est vice, alors je t’aime !
Comme un père aime son fils, d’un amour suprême…
La chair est tentation, mais nous résistons
Car Dieu nous a fait Hommes, et en lui nous croyons…
Don Kameleon
oh c’est joli ce que tu dis Don Kameleon!
Merci pour le partage.
Bisous.
I feel like homosexuality is one of those topics that people often get too bitter about.
Similar to abortion or any other touchy subject.
My comment isn’t directed towards the practice of homosexuality but rather towards those who hand out flyers saying that it’s wrong.
Isn’t it missing the point if you shove a gay flag in someones face? Or a picture with a fetus saying “Mommy, don’t kill me!”? You see, what upsets me the most about these people is that they fly this banner of Christianity and say that what they do is right because of what’s in the bible but, they miss the point entirely. Christ would not have slammed a flyer down someones throat so they would understand.
Christ would have showed love.
If you want to talk to homosexuals the best way is to not cause conflict. Love them for the people that they are and get things from their point of view.
How can we learn if we never listen?
I actually have a post about this on my Art Blog. You can see it if you go to http://www.jamesschay.com/?p=110
It talks about how we often miss the point of what we’re trying to say.
Love,
J.Schay
Caro Paulo Coelho,
Eu sempre desejei poder falar com você.As coisas que você escreve,parece que foram escritas pensando em mim,pensando na minha vida.
Te sigo no twitter,e a cada dia fico mais espantada com as suas frases diárias:elas são assustadoramente coincidentes com o que está acontecendo na minha vida ou ao meu redor.
É muito bom quando preciso de um conselho e você posta uma frase que me ilumina de imediato.
Obrigada
Winny Trindade
Thank you Hildegarde, beautiful words, I have never heard that quote before.
Many thanks
XXX
Pertaining to my last sharing of thoughts, I must say that those may not reflect mine, but I wanted to bring other elements than religious rules into the forum. Jojo.
I decided to go look for thoughts pertaining to the subject that are interesting. Another way to reflect on the subject of sexuality and relation be it with a man and a wowan, a man and a man, a wowan and a wowan … I did not translate, sorry, because I miss some words. I invite you to read some texts written by those 2, or any other philosophic minds.
Simone de Beauvoir
“On ne naît pas femme, on le devient. Aucun destin biologique, psychique, économique ne définit la figure que revêt au sein de la société la femelle humaine ; c’est l’ensemble de la civilisation qui élabore ce produit intermédiaire entre le mâle et le castrat qu’on qualifie de féminin. »
« C’est seulement quand ses doigts modèlent le corps d’une femme dont les doigts modèlent son corps que le miracle du miroir s’achève. Entre l’homme et la femme l’amour est un acte ; chacun arraché à soi devient autre : ce qui émerveille l’amoureuse, c’est que la langueur passive de sa chair soit reflétée sous la figure de la fougue virile ; mais la narcissiste dans ce sexe dressé ne reconnaît que trop confusément ses appâts. Entre femmes l’amour est contemplation ; les caresses sont destinées moins à s’approprier l’autre qu’à se recréer lentement à travers elle ; la séparation est abolie, il n’y a ni lutte, ni victoire, ni défaite ; dans une exacte réciprocité chacune est à la fois le sujet et l’objet, la souveraine et l’esclave ; la dualité est complicité. »
« Une personne douée d’une vitalité vigoureuse, agressive, exubérante souhaite se dépenser activement et refuse ordinairement la passivité ; disgraciée, malformée, une femme peut essayer de compenser son infériorité en acquérant des qualités viriles ; si sa sensibilité érogène n’est pas développée, elle ne désire pas les caresses masculines. Mais anatomie et hormones ne définissent jamais qu’une situation et ne posent pas l’objet vers lequel celle-ci sera transcendée ».
Monique Wittig
« La catégorie de sexe est une catégorie politique qui fonde la société en tant qu’hétérosexuelle. En cela, elle n’est pas une affaire d’être mais de relations (car les “femmes” et les “hommes” sont le résultat de relations). La catégorie de sexe est la catégorie qui établit comme “naturelle” la relation qui est la base de la société (hétérosexuelle) et à travers laquelle la moitié de la population – les femmes – sont “hétérosexualisées” […] et soumises à une économie hétérosexuelle ». »
« La catégorie de sexe est une catégorie totalitaire. Elle forme l’esprit tout autant que le corps puisqu’elle contrôle toute la production mentale. Elle possède nos esprits de telle manière que nous ne pouvons pas penser en dehors d’elle. C’est la raison pour laquelle nous devons la détruire et commencer à penser au-delà d’elle si nous voulons commencer à penser vraiment, de la même manière que nous devons détruire les sexes en tant que réalités biologiques si nous voulons commencer à exister. »
« Car […] ce qui fait une femme, c’est une relation sociale particulière à un homme, relation que nous avons autrefois appelée de servage, relation qui implique des obligations personnelles et physiques aussi bien que des obligations économiques (“assignation à résidence”, corvée domestique, devoir conjugal, production d’enfants illimitée, etc.), relation à laquelle les lesbiennes échappent en refusant de devenir ou de rester hétérosexuelles ».
Now, for me, what is there is a line of Mother Teresa that comes to my mind. “Life is an opportunity, take it.” Life for me is an experience that is unique, personal, and I have to follow what is there for me to experience, but with a conscience of the choices and their impact and direction for me, and all that in a direction of getting closer and closer to the Source of Life.
With affection, Jojo.
Speaking as a homosexual myself. It is true, homosexuality is by nature not nurture. I was raised in a christian family, without any homosexual influence nor heterosexual trauma. However, as I grew, I felt romantic attraction to women instead of men. I do believe homosexuality is also by choice: choosing to accept who you are or choosing to be a “normal” person.
After a difficult period of self-conflict and denial, I chose to accept myself. And with this choice I found many things about myself I never knew before. Sometimes it’s surprising to know who you really are, it isn’t easy. But every time I discover another new part of me and find out the way to deal it (and I found many bad parts actually), I feel more content, it makes me more confident that I took the right choice.
For those who chose the other, I understand their position. Sometimes it seems easier to look “normal”. Don’t have to face other people’s judgment. But I think it’s unfair if they involve other people in their masquerade.
And regarding to religion. Does being a homosexual mean we can’t believe in God? because we are sinful? Is loving someone (although the same gender) is sinful? Who are we humans to judge others?
This judgments have made many of my fellow homosexuals stop believing in religion. I feel very sad for this. And it has made a stereotype thought that homosexuals are non-religious.
Actually, there are many stereotype misthoughts about homosexuals, and mostly come from misjudgment. This could be another new topic itself :)
“How could one live if God did not need that one, and how would that one exist? You need God to exist, and God needs you, because there is the signification of life.” Martin Buber
All institutions highly structured, like religions, army and multi nationals deliver a signification of things and a reason in exchange of their needings toward us and of the order that they impose on our lives. But none cannot offer a signification or a meaning of being that we can put on as a clothe.
Dear Jeiky,
You suggest that when on is born homosexual, they have two choices: they can choose to accept who they are, or choose to be “normal.” I would take that one step further and say that, if one chooses to be anything OTHER than what they truly are, THAT is “abnormal,” because it puts one in constant conflict with their essential nature as well and places them in subservience to preconceived social “norms” which do not allow for their full development as a whole and healthy human being. The only way to truly be “normal” IS to accept what you are and to live that fully.
Just this morning, I spent a little time looking into the definition of the word “normal.” I found a number of definitions, several of which are pertinent to this discussion:
NORMAL –
1) conforming with, adhering to, or constituting a norm, standard, pattern, level, or type; typical
2) in accordance with scientific laws
3) Biology: functioning or occurring in a natural way; lacking observable abnormalities or deficiencies
4) free from mental illness; sane.
The first of these definitions – the one which most people seem to be relying upon in this discussion when they refer to homosexuality as “abnormal” – is absolutely worthless, as it is based solely on subjective criteria, on what this or that group has randomly agreed upon as “the norm.” There is no factual basis for these kinds of statements as they are supported only by social standards, which in themselves are arbitrary and unstable, ever-changing.
As for the second and third definitions, well, one IS behaving in a perfectly “normal” way when one is born homosexual and lives in accordance with their natural biological inclinations. Just because this occurs in a minority of the population, does not, scientifically speaking, render it an “abnormality.” A minority of the human species is born with blonde hair, but we do not refer to that as “abnormal,” nor do we ask them to dye their hair black and expect them to forget that they were ever blonde. Although I do not like to rely on scientific arguments in this sort of debate, there is indeed ample, highly reputable scientific research to prove that homosexuality is linked to certain genetic markers, just as being a blonde is accountable by similar genetic markers. Nor are the genetic markers in question some “strange mutation” (an “abnormality”); they are rather simply a natural part of our human gene pool – anyone, in any place, at any time, could be born homosexual. In accordance with reputable (meaning unbiased) modern science, it IS NOT abnormal.
Now, as for the fourth definition, I ask this: what could possibly render a person “insane” quicker than being forced to pretend that they are something which they know they are not? Let us say, for example, that the tables were turned. Just pretend for a moment that we lived in a world where homosexuality was regarded as the norm and heterosexuality was censured. Suppose that everyone born heterosexual were expected to ignore that and adopt a homosexual lifestyle. Would this not be a sure recipe for mental illness as these heterosexuals tried to conform to the homosexual standard? Normal, in terms of mental health and well-being, is living in accordance with what you are, not what someone else expects you to be.
Now, one last thought – I would like to a couple of my own definitions:
NORMAL is accepting and acting upon who who truly know you are down deep in your being, even when this places you in an unpopular position.
ABNORMAL is trying to conform to others’ ideals of “normality,” even at the cost of losing your true identity.
And by Dorothy Parker: “Heterosexuality is not normal, it’s just common.”
Much Love,
Savita
Humans are still humans regardless of their looks, nationality, culture or even sexuality. I have friends who are gay way back my highschool and even my gradeschool days. I did not judge them with what they believe in. Rather, I let myself to uderstand their lives, especially now that I’m taking up BS Psychology. It helps me a lot to look deep down their feelings and actions.
The only problem is that, society can not accept their acts. And I believe that it’s not the “homosexuality” that makes them not being accepted. It’s their actions (i.e. same sex marriage). Especially to church or whatever coservative religion people are into, most homosexuals are not being treated equally.
Let’s not just focus on their faults, or I’d rather say, it’s not their fault if they grew up as such. Let them feel and say, “Yes, I am Human TOO.” It is, absolutely, their right.
Nobody mentioned the homosexuality caused be conditions as being in gail, or about the issue of the poor teenagers from poor countries, used by rich people. This is a shame, when somebody get constrained by poverty to be something it is not.
You make a very good point and of course the homosexual behaviour of these VICTIMS is not innate but is ‘learned’. Who knows what psychological damage this may cause!
A great point to raise… thanks for a reminder. This is one of the few and only real times that i feel sexuality Should be raised for public domain discussion.
And good new picture for you, Alexander ;o) x
Dear Alexandra,
in that case we will taking about prostitution and human trafficking and not about homosexuality.
A whole new topic to be discussed.
xoxo
Gabi
Again! I open the page and your comment, Alexandra, is the first one I see. It’s like stepping onto the battlefield, day after day, and running headlong into the same warrior. (I can only assume that I must have a lot to learn from these encounters with you.)
As for the instances you mention, they are indeed tragic, and I also think that they are separate issues, the root of which is not homosexuality but human brutality. Men in prison do all sorts of horrid things to one another, as do the guards. The environment itself brings out the very worst in people, on both sides. Male rape is just one aspect of this. Similarly, people who are extremely poor, are always in danger of becoming the victims of abuse or violence, and the children of poverty are especially defenseless. In their search for opportunity where there is no opportunity, they frequently find themselves victims, in one form or another, or those who are in a position to take advantage of them.
However, I would say that consensual sex (meaning sex absent of any form of coercion) between two adults is a wholly different arena. To compare homosexual rape or child prostitution with consenting sex between two homosexual adults is like to compare the rape of a woman with consenting sex between man and woman.
As per the opinions of psychologists and their research, men do not rape because they “need” sex; they rape because, down deep inside, they have a fear and/or hatred of women. The act itself is just a tool, like a gun or a knife, used to bring harm and to inflict hurt upon women. I would assume that homosexual rape, such as in prison, is much the same – it is not so much about the “need” for sex itself as it is about power, about dominating another human being by inflicting physical pain and psychological suffering. It is a tool of violence and aggression. If two men in prison willfully choose to have sex, however, this is a different story.
Similarly, when it comes to prostitution in any form, one has to question the motives and psychological makeup of the one buying. Is this person afraid to have a real relationship with someone on equal terms? Are they buying sex because this way they are not faced with the fear of rejection? Does being in this position of dominance help them overcome the fear of losing control? There are so many questions which apply here, whether the relationship is heterosexual or homosexual. If the relationship is between adults, I think it is a bit messed up on some deep psychological level, but then I think we’re probably all a bit “messed up” in some sort of way, so I do not see it as a very big issue, certainly not something which should be made illegal. And, of course, when children are involved, it becomes something very different – it does not matter if the act is heterosexual or homosexual, it is abusive.
I think I’m straying a bit here, but the basic point I’m trying to make is that sex between two consenting homosexual adults is fine; prison rape and child prostitution, of course, are not. It wouldn’t matter if the rape were of a woman by a man, or if the prostitution were heterosexual – these are really very different issues from consensual homosexual sex, and should be deal with separately. The fact that prison rape and child prostitution exists should in no sense be used to bring into question the “morality” of homosexuality in general. Maybe we should ALL stop having sex; then there would be no more rape or child prostitution of any kind, either heterosexual or homosexual.
Much love to you, Alexandra!
With Deepest Respect and Admiration,
Savita
Will Roscoe, scholar who wrote bio of Wewha, and other books;
Cassell’s Encyclopedia of Queer Myth, Symbol, and Spirit, by Randy P. Connor, David Hatfield Sparks and Mariya Sparks;
http://www.intltwospiritgathering.org/
I’m a member of the Miccosukee Tribe of Indians of Florida, a Native American Tribe here in the USA.
My tribe doesn’t have positive views on people that could be considered homosexual, bisexual, etc.
However, in other tribes around North America, there are respected places in their society for people of alternative genders and sexualities.
Some tribes don’t limit their conception of humanity to simply the masculine and feminine genders. In fact, certain tribes have ceremonies where they let the child choose which gender group they want to participate in — whether they want to join and work among the men or women of the tribe.
Other tribes revere these special people as religious authorities, mediators, and spiritually-gifted beings. These people — sometimes referred to in contemporary writings as “Two Spirit — can conduct special ceremonies, can confer power, are masters of protocol, etc.
These tribes that view the Two Spirit members of their communities with respect benefit in many ways by integrating them into their society.
Wewha was a member of the Zuni people and was a Two Spirit. Around the late 1800s and early 1900s, he was sent as an ambassador of his tribe to Washington, D.C., where he was greeted by society there. But the Washington DC society assumed that he was a woman. Wewha was an authority on ceremony and craftwork and had excellent manners, well-respected by his tribe. When Washington DC found out, though, they took it almost as an insult.
Anyway, what I mean to say is that this discussion, so far, has seemed to be focusing on the topic from a Judeo-Christian point-of-view. You should feel free to explore how other societies around the world view these unique members of their communities.
Certain members of my tribe may look down upon me, but I think that just serves to encourage me to open my heart to them. I love my people, our language and culture and history. We have much to share.
Let’s expand this discussion. I invite your thoughts and look forward to sharing more of mine with you.
Much love!
dear Houston,
hello from japan.
in my country, we have been told that japanese are descendants of chinese, indonesian, and native american. (maybe you never heard of it though…) so i always felt your family/culture is like an extended family of ours. and yes, i want to know more about your cultures but i am a bit intimidated after reading your comment because it seems like it is more complicating than what i thought…
anyway, i agree that there are many comments from judeo christian point of view in this topic. and i am a little bothered by so called theoretical comments by christians.
i am a christian. i knew he was real since i was little. i completely trusted him.
but as i grew up and met american christians, my whole world became shaky. now i think i should have been more protective of my belief. my faith. and i am having difficult time remembering what was like…blissful time. i had a golden heart then. but crazy big ego american christians casted big shadow in my heart. (i do not mean to blame on american christians in general, but i feel better now…let it all out:) my point here is that there are some self claim christians who say and do things against jesus. and i do not like that!
and as for this topic, one should follow one’s heart…
love
Dear Houston,
Thank you for sharing your views, it was very refreshing to read it. I totally agree with you, we shall separate the topic from religion.
Being homosexual has nothing to do with religion or culture. But accepting homosexuality is very related with our beliefs and cultures, therefore sometimes is difficult to define the limits to avoid mixing subjects.
Everybody is entitle to their opinion and the fact that we are sharing our views openly is already a step forward towards understanding and acceptance.
Love to read about North American tribes traditions.
Love
Gabi
Dear Houston,
Thank you so much for sharing this information with us. It is beautiful really, and truly inspiring to hear about alternative ways of viewing homosexuality and giving it a respected place in society. I wish that our culture could arrive at the same sort of understanding – that human being are not simply born as “male” or “female,” but that there are so many interesting variations and combinations of these two energies.
In fact, to take this even one step further, I have heard and read of people who consider themselves to be homosexual females in a male body, or homosexual males in a female body. The most famous declaration of this sort of which I know is a quote by Dennis Hopper, who once said: “I’m a lesbian in a man’s body.” Now, whether Dennis Hopper was joking or not, I do not know, but his quote still encapsulates fully this basic idea that gender is not just black and white, but can come in all sorts of mixtures and combinations. In the same way, some homosexual males are very effeminate, while others are extremely masculine. Some lesbians, likewise are very masculine, while others are very girly. There are all sorts of ways that a human being can be, and what appears on the surface does not necessarily reflect the real gender identity within.
Thank you, Houston, for sharing with us a bit of your culture and these highly admirable perspectives on homosexuality and gender.
Wishing you all the best!
Savita
Are people born homosexual or do they learn?
I think they are born, mostly.
The male homosexual act is the main objectionable matter in most ‘objectors’ eyes. It is hard-coded in the heterosexual male to avoid such acts.
So we have two groups, neither can avoid what they feel. They must learn to accept and not get into situations of conflict. If homosexuals are proud, let them be proud, but don’t make the ‘objectors’ suffer. Have some consideration on both sides.
“The male homosexual act is the main objectionable matter….” I think you bring up a very good point, Sean. Sex between men is the REALLY BIG taboo. It’s something we don’t talk about, we certainly don’t fantasize about or suggest as a part of our heterosexual relationships. Two woman having sex, however – that is a wholly different matter. It isn’t really a taboo at all, so long as the primary objective is to excite or please a man. Open almost any pornographic magazine marketed to men, and you will discover at least one lay-out which depicts two women engaged in sex. Men love this! They fantasize about it, they try, if at all possible, to experience it at least once in their lives. In my own personal experience, I cannot tell you how many men whom I have dated that eventually came around to asking me if I would be willing to have sex with a woman in front of them. Apparently, this is an enormous turn-on. As I say, it is not at all a taboo, so long as the primary objective is the pleasure of the male.
However, our cultural perspective on male homosexuality is very different. You don’t open a women’s porn magazine to find a lay-out of two men having sex. I’m never heard of a woman asking her husband to have sex with another man in order to fulfill her fantasy of seeing two men together. I’m not saying this is an impossibility; I’ve just never heard of it. Yet I have never met a man yet who was not turned on by the thought of two women together.
What is this all about?! Why is male homosexuality viewed as so utterly “wrong” – such an absolute taboo – while female homosexuality is only “wrong” or taboo if a man is not somehow involved in or at least witness to the scenario?
There’s one thing that really makes me wonder, why oh why is homosexuality being linked with the Bible?
I’d like to see discussions without Bible-arguments, because such arguments aren’t real arguments, to me, in my eyes.
I do respect every religion but I dont understand why it is a reason to believe homosexuality is a sin.
(It’s not a sin ofcourse)
The one greatest “sin” in life is not to be who you truly are. The second greatest sin is to prevent someone else from becoming who they were meant to be.
I think love has not sex, souls just fall in love for some strange reason, I do not judge homosexuality. God bless them.
Yes Ely! If it was any other way then we could walk into the street and fall in love with whoever we chose. People could wear billboards encouraging people to choose to love them. Mine would say “Go on, you know you want to!”. I perhaps I could offer a free set of steak knives! :-)
Sexual attraction is a funny thing. Sometimes it comes and goes without us even knowing why. He is attracted to her, she is attracted to her, he is attracted to him and she is attracted to him! In essence it can get complicated even though it should be one of the easiest things in the world. The problem is that too much thought is put into it. Is this right? What will people say and so on. It always comes back to this comparison of ourselves with the “normalcies” of society. Oh how I dislike this word! Ha, at my age I’m happy when I’m attracted to anybody or anything!!!
Ah, so wise Shelly… I agree!
I saw an scientific program, in Italian tv, and there they showed after research, that due polution, way of living, other factors, the males of our days are less ” males”. They show that too in attire, ear rings, use of cosmetics. I guess the food full of hormons for growing fast is also to be blamed. Like the huge chickens so on and so forth. What about that???
Interesting!
hahaha and global worming
They are called the metrosexuals.. ;)..those are the men who love to go to tanning salons, wear makeup, dress to kill, always smell perfumed, pluck their eyebrows ( well not all do) uses mosturising creams, they preffer to go to hairdresses rather than go to the barbers and they love facial massage and manicure…They are the “yuppies” who live in the cities and earn a lot of money to support their yuppy lifestyle…I love them!..The very masculine men who are in touch with their feminine side..
But there also thousands of women who are now in touch with their masculine side..they no longer need men to support them and they can race a family without husbands without being scrutinised by our “normal’ society..the mow lawns,drive trucks,do house maintainance etc…the men should have the right to choose to do the cooking, the laundry, ironing, choose the colors of the beddings etc….have a great weekend everyone..oxoxoox…
This is going to seem like I’m just picking on you, Alexandra. But I’m not. It just happens, by chance, that every time I log on, your post is the first one I see.
About this program, first, I’d have to ask: Why does it not surprise me that this was on Italian TV?
Secondly, I have no doubt that hormones and other food additives are affecting our health in general (young girls developing breasts before they reach their teens, for example), but there is another possible way of looking at this: It could also be that we are simply entering into a new period in our cultural history, where the feminine is valued just as highly as the masculine, and thus what might be deemed as the “feminine side” in males is nurtured and allowed to develop along with their more “masculine” attributes. It goes back to that old argument of nature vs. nurture: Is it something in one’s genetic makeup or the natural environment (i.e. some food additive) which brings about the development of what we might call “feminine” attributes, or is it the way a person is raised.
I really think that homosexuality is one thing – which I believe is genetically based – but men, in general, being more “effeminate,” this is a whole different issue, which I think has more to do with a recent, radical change in our cultural perspectives. Nor do I think there is anything “wrong” with this. In fact, I think it is quite healthy and far more balanced than the expectation that every male on the planet go around flexing his muscles and displaying his testosterone-charged virility as though he were a Banty rooster on the defensive.
Let’s take Paulo, for example. I do not know Paulo personally, but I have read a few of his novels, and I would say that Paulo has a very well-developed feminine side to his nature. He is able to write about women with a degree of understanding that few males writers are able to achieve, or would even dare attempt. His female characters are not only believable and compelling, but highly complex – not based on card-board cut-out stereotypes. And even aside from that – just the little glimpses we get of Paulo here on this blog – he seems to have a soft side, something about him that is supple, like water, not harsh and immovable, like rock. This is the feminine, and I happen to think it is highly admirable in a male when he is able to develop and openly reveal this side of himself, without feeling that it is a threat to his sense of masculinity. The two are not conflicting, after all – they are complimentary.
I don’t really think that there are just “men” and “women” in the world. Human beings are far more complex than that. Yes, there are masculine and feminine principles at play, not just in human beings, but in everything we encounter in the world. Yet each of us contains a bit of each of these – the masculine and the feminine – within us. It is really a matter of how much we allow these two aspects of ourselves to develop, and of course, that depends greatly upon how society perceives the expression of these attributes and therefore allows for their development. For centuries it has been taboo for a man to show his feminine side, but this is changing.
Although this is a bit off the subject, I also think that this is linked to the current renewal of the image of the Goddess and the rise in Goddess worship. Many old taboos are being shattered as we learn to equally accept and admire both aspects of the whole human being – masculine and feminine. So, if there is such a trend as this suggested by the TV program you mention – men, in general, becoming more “feminine” – I think it it probably a very positive development in our society.
Sincerely,
Savita
yes -
Like not rinsing dishes after use of washing liquid on plates… that has been found to affect sperm fertility.
← Previous Comments
Next Comments →