While moderating the forum on Homosexuality, I realized that all the justifications pro and against Homosexuality are based on religious dogmas. I’m myself a catholic, but looking to this current pope, I don’t think I’m doing a lot of good to my church. At the same time I have to respect some dogmas, things that I believe, things that beyond the human condition.
How far can we go, when we realize that what the priest or the rabbi, or the imam says goes against our beliefs?
I think that althought we belong to an established religion, sometimes you have to take your spiritual path in your hand. I’m not talking about new age, new theory, thinking that you can put everything in a basket or choosing that we are going to create our own religion. I’m talking about the importance of being capable of distinguish between things that are really important to us and things that somehow maybe manipulated by our religion. So, I’m looking forward to your opinions on this subject.
And, yes, I have a white t-shirt again.
Thank you,
Paulo
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“I said to the almond tree, ”Friend, speak to me of God,” and the almond tree blossomed.”
Nikos Kazantzakis quote
I am just repeating myself.. I find this quote wonderful..
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Very very nice.
Thank you Thelma.
Good Thelma I liked
That’s beautiful.
Gorgeous Quote,
Love it!
Thanks Thelma
Love
Beautiful. Thank you, XXX
Well I think that it is necesary to be a strong person to take as you say Paulo the spiritual path in your own hand, and be capable to live with dignity and respect about yourself and about others.
I feel that I understand perfectly that posicion , because I studied all my highschool years in a religous institution, and always all the time have to make some questions to my self and to the nuns, and constanly was almost fighting with my internal thought about what should I belive and about what I should fall to live according to myself
Now I realise what a great oportunity i had, that gave me the streng to take my spiritual path.
I must to apologize, cause my english it´s not so good.
Thanks this is a great foro
Hildegarde,
I agree that the oppression of women by religions needs to end…and yet the HOW of it is such a big question. Think about how aggressive men become when their power is challenged by a woman wanting to be their equal…and that really is the problem. If there were no increased aggression towards women, I think women across the world would become more vocal and more willing to step forward.
What I see is that women put their children first. Women put their need to be beautiful first. Women put their love for men first. As a result, charges that “You’re a bad mother”, “You’re ugly…you act like a man”, and “I don’t love you” or “What are you a dyke?” as responses to a woman’s empowering herself cut her to the core of who she is and she often steps down, steps back, steps into her “place” and withdraws the challenge. When she steps forward, she has a war on her hands; When she steps back, she has peace with the world and only fights herself.
As long as women are socialized to “get along” even when faced with increased aggression, the likelihood for cultural shift is less and less. And while I agree with Elaine that the “sexual revolution” was a starting point of the pendulum swinging forward, I would encourage anyone to ask young women today if they are feminists. It is disheartening. Ask them. They often start with a confused look, then shock, asking back, “You mean a lesbian?” Women are socialized now to believe that they have to side “against men” to side with women…and only women stand to benefit from dispelling that myth. As long as religions and men in general maintain the status quo and women are too intimidated to push issues forward, which at times requires aggression on our part, then the pendulum swings back to where it was. Passive resistance has never been effective for womankind…Passive is what we’ve been for too long. Women may be “feeling her [feminine] power within” but we have to remember to open our mouths, straighten our backbones, speak up for ourselves and each other and use that power for the greater good. We have to resist intimidation and get back to telling our daughters that there is more to being good than being pretty…because young girls don’t hear that anymore.
~Melyssa
What’s the Satan in Bible?
Do you think that Satan is real existence?
I don’t know well.
Help me.
Dear Tarek,
this story is wonderful because it’s talking about Oneness, about being One with the All… and about finally accepting that God is really EVERYWHERE, even inside of me, you and all human beings…
And why should I not accept someone and decide to live separated from people who are homosexuals (this is only a label anyway)if I really am all what exist?
Love, Light, Joy, Peace & Oneness
Sara
If God is indeed omnipotent, all-pervasive and all-good (perfect), then wherefrom came Satan? How can imperfection (evil) be born of perfection (pure good)?
As a child I used to ask my mother, who was intent upon indoctrinating me into Christianity, these sorts of questions. Many times we had the same discussion, and never could she answer these seemingly simple questions satisfactorily. As a result, I could never fully accept the religion which she was trying to offer me. I could not get beyond the question of Satan.
Then, as an adult, I set out to look for the answers myself to these same questions, and much to my surprise, I discovered that even among the most gifted theological minds that have ever existed in the history of Christianity, there has never been born a fully cohesive and thus satisfactory answer to this question.
Certainly, even if we accept that God is all-powerful, God could have “allowed” Lucifer to “fall” (for whatever purpose or aim), thus “allowing” evil to come into the world, but if nothing is outside of God, if God is indeed all-pervasive, then this means that even this evil had to come from WITHIN God. This leads to the conclusion that either A) God is not all-pervasive – Satan is a force outside of God, or B) God is not all-powerful – God can’t control Satan, or C) God is not all good – Satan is an aspect of God. Christianity upholds that God is all three – all-pervasive (nothing is outside of God), all-powerful (God controls all), and all good (God is in no way “evil”) – AND YET Satan still exists. There is no way to make this logical. There is no way to have it make sense, no matter how many knots you tie your mind up into. It just does not work.
Other religions have dealt with what theologically is known as “the problem of evil” (the fact that “bad” things do happen in the world) in other ways, which to my way of thinking, may not solve the problem altogether, but at least they do overcome these questions. In Hinduism, for example, we have Shiva (the Destroyer) who is but one aspect of the trinity and exits in essential harmony and equality alongside Brahma (the Creator) and Vishnu (the Sustainer). In Taoism we have Yin and Yang, two “apparently” opposing principles, which, when held in perfect balance, are not in fact in “opposition” to one another at all but are complimentary – each essential to the other.
Even when we allow for the existence of evil within the Divine, however – when we do not envision an entity separate from and in opposition to God, such as a Satan – we still run into the problem of WHY? Why is there evil in the world? Why do bad things happen even to good people? Different religions find different ways of answering this, and each proposed answer is problematic in and of itself. Still yet, I personally, cannot accept the concept of Satan as an answer – God, who is perfect and good, somehow begat Satan, who is imperfect and evil, and (for whatever reason) “allows” him to do his work in this world.
The way I found around all of this is to stop asking the same questions, which, in the end, always result in a flawed answer, no matter what the source of those answers. It is like going around asking: Why does 2 + 2 = 5? Well 2 + 2 doesn’t equal 5, but you can keep asking that, and you can keep coming up with inadequate solutions because the question itself is flawed. “Why does evil exist in the world? What is the source of this evil?” This is the same sort of question as “Why does 2 + 2 = 5?” The very concept of “evil” or “bad” is skewed – it is the faulty component in the equation to which there is no satisfactory solution. We “perceive” evil or “bad” – we seek to give it a name: Satan – but this perception is an invention of our own minds, which we have created in seeking to make “sense” of the world.
I would say this – EVIL DEFINITELY EXISTS: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS EVIL. This may appear to be a contradiction, but within this contradiction there is a core truth which transcends all of our mere perceptions. Evil IS. Good IS. There is no contradiction between the two. They are one and the same at the core. God/ess is neither, and yet subsumes both.
Satan is a myth.
Much Love,
Savita
Speaking about religions and GOD I would like to share with you this part from Gibran Khaleel Gibran’s book ” The Madman”
Love to all of you
“In the ancient days, when the first quiver of speech came to my lips, I ascended the holy mountain and spoke unto God, saying, “Master, I am thy slave. Thy hidden will is my law and I shall obey thee for ever more.” But God made no answer, and like a mighty tempest passed away. And after a thousand years I ascended the holy mountain and again spoke unto God, saying, “Creator, I am thy creation. Out of clay hast thou fashioned me and to thee I owe mine all.” And God made no answer, but like a thousand swift wings passed away. And after a thousand years I climbed the holy mountain and spoke unto God again, saying, “Father, I am thy son. In pity and love thou hast given me birth, and through love and worship I shall inherit thy kingdom.” And God made no answer, and like the mist that veils the distant hills he passed away. And after a thousand years I climbed the sacred mountain and again spoke unto God, saying, “My God, my aim and my fulfilment; I am thy yesterday and thou art my tomorrow. I am thy root in the earth and thou art my flower in the sky, and together we grow before the face of the sun.” Then God leaned over me, and in my ears whispered words of sweetness, and even as the sea that enfoldeth a brook that runneth down to her, he enfolded me. And when I descended to the valleys and the plains God was there also.”
Thank you for sharing this.
Kises from my hearth
SPIRITUALITY, RELIGION, RELIGIOUS INSTITUIONS, AND PERSONAL CONFLICTS ON THIS hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Religion – is the flowering of spirituality, when spirituality matures, becomes celebratory, religion is born. Spiritulaity is the foundation on which relegion are built. the root which cannot be seen, but felt. In case of Christianity and buddhism, deeply spiritual people inspired releigions much after their death. some like islam releigion came into being in the lifetime of it’s prophet. in case of hinduism, there is no sinle prophet, refinements to religious beleifs / systmes have been a part of evolution of this religion. In a way hinduism is not a religion. One can remain a hindu even by fighting all hindu preists, by never going to temple, absolutely no conditions. In Hiduism, their was no system of conversion, it was like just join the gang and u are a hindu. ills it has, but we will talk about that later.
Religious Instituions – are basically political structures, and carry the message of the original messanger with them, they carry the words. problem starts when they start feeling that just because they have words they have meanings too. In a certain state of mind those words get formed, by reading the words the same state of mind and being cannnot be achieved, that is why buddha said that even if someone imbibed in him all the 32 marks of a buddha, still he cannot become a buddha.
Use the reeligious institutions, don’t get used by them. U too read the words and then when in any doubt beleive yourself rather than any ‘father’; and why do they acll themselves father, ain’t there supposed to be one father who lives always in heaven, at best he can send his son down to get crucified, or orchester great wars, he himslef the father that is does not take this indignity upon himslef, to come alive amidst us mortals full of blood and emotions.
Lastly what does one do : when one finds one’s heart’s calling in conflict with the callings given by the relegious leaders. rule is simple, if it talks of love it is religious, if it talks of hate it is irreleigious, some violence is allowed, but only in self defense, no preemptive strikes allowed.
a little bit about homosexuality – i could not participate, rules cannot be bent for one chap, and i am too lazy to look around for a cybercafe ( to be honest i looked around but was surprised to find that their are no cybercafs in about 5 KMs of where i live and, surprise , surprise, )
Paulo has said that most argumnets for and gainst homosexuality were based on religious dogmas. to me homosexuality appears ‘unnatural’ a kind of incompelteness, an aberration, a pschycological disorder to be treated, not because, it is against some religious beleifs, i never cared to find out what exactly does releigion say about it. There are certain things which may appear very logical but are not OK, improper as we know it, i mean we just know, like cannabalism.
Logically of u see, it should make a sense to literally eat the dead, i mean after they are dead anyway, why should it the body not be fondly eaten. But not only humeas, even higher animals know it is not right. same with homosexuality, and having homosexuals in anaimals should not be taken as it being a valid thing, it only means that animals too go ‘nuts’ and saying that hosexuality has exsted since ages still does not make it valid, ‘perverts’ have been in existance always. facts need to be accepted as facts, things are as they are, but things need not remain as they are. God has given man a capacity to be able to write ( speak or at least feel )our own bible, one can read as mnay bibles as one wants, one actually should, but one can not copy.
love
aditya
PS : sorry folks a long post, as has become my bane !
Just to pick at you a little, because you know I like to do that, Aditya – if I didn’t like you and respect your opinions very much, I wouldn’t bother to bother you so much:
This statement you make about cannibalism: “humans know it is not right” represents a very limited perspective of what is “human.” In some cultures in the world cannibalism is not viewed as an essential and self-evident “wrong.” Does this mean that the people of these cultures are somehow not fully “human?” Just a thought.
Much Love,
Savita
I think every religion has a guideline, a ground rule a bible, holy book or whatever form it came. Every believer should have access to learn and study it. I believe every believer should fully understand what his/her religion all about, not just following everything a religious leader says. Religious leaders are humans too. We’re all following God and want to know more what God wants us to do. It’s just religious leaders sometimes have ore knowledge that can enrich us in understanding God’s will. If we are fully understand our bible, holy book, and our religion we would know when they make mistakes since they are humans too. It’s not our job to judge our religious leader, it’s not our job. Whatever ways, we have to follow what God wants us to do, and the most important thing is God never invented religion, human invented religion. Religions are just paths to The Way of salvation.
Namaste Hildegarde,
This is a difficult subject at best. I have great anger toward every organized religion where this is concerned. I don’t use the name of Mary to define the Divine Feminine though. To me, She is but an aspect. I prefer the name She gave to Bernadette… the Immaculate Conception. The Mother of All Things.
She’s been making Her presence widely felt… especially since the sexual revolution. Women in greater and greater numbers have been feeling Her power within. We were once on the other side … we were dominant within civilization… but we abused our power. Then the warriors came from the Steppes and put us down.
Perhaps as we embrace our power this time, we shall learn from our mistakes, and equality will replace subjugation. The Law is Love. Women have the power to change. We always have, but we must forgive what was so we can proceed to what will be whole and unresentful.
Love to you
Namaste Hildegarde,
BTW, Hildegard of Bingen was a major influence on me… I thought I would mention that since we’re discussing the power of women. :-)
Mary, the Virgin is Sacred to me. I revere her. She is untouchable… no pun intended. But I have always felt more in common with the Magdalene. I could see myself sitting at his feet drinking in every word he said. For me, she is Sacred as well, thus being doesn’t offer the full spectrum which is the Divine Feminine to me.
As for the sexual revolution, I saw it through the eyes of a child. I don’t want you to think I idealized that time, however. I see it as a wake up call for women. Women must surrender in order to orgasm. That is a physiological fact. This is female power.
Since Love requires surrender, I am reminded of a line from Zahir where the writer quotes Teilbard de Chardin, “But the day man learns to harness the energy of love, that will be as important as the discovery of fire.” Unfortunately when we surrender, we are subject to whatever happens to us. Thus the need for rising up. Paul wrote about men surrendering to God as women surrender to men.
If God is Love, as I feel in my heart, then we must help our maleness within and without learn to surrender without bitterness. This is why our anger needs to heal for true liberation to occur, in my opinion. This is why the excesses of the 70s begot the repression of the 80s… we got scared and forgot the first rule of Love… surrender.
Love to you.
First of all I would like to say my intent is not to offend anyone in this forum.
Religion is always a delicate matter to discuss, therefore this is only a personal opinion.
Personally, I prefer the approach of non-monotheistic religions, philosophies or beliefs in many matters.
Monotheistic religions usually condemn certain actions and behaviors based on dogma and interpretation rather than spirituality.
Non-monotheistic religions, beliefs or philosophies are usually acceptant and tolerant of any personal preference as long as it causes no harm.
The main focus is spirituality and inner development, not outward displays of faith (which includes actions that can be judged by others).
There are no absolute truths, the problem is that some people believe their interpretation and way of acting is the absolute truth, and this brings many avoidable problems in our current society.
Monotheistic religions could be a more positive influence if people focused on their own inner spiritual development rather than on condemning or judging other people’s behavior or actions based only on interpretation of their respective holy books.
Não consegui encontrar o lugar onde postar minha opiniao, portanto, me expresso como resposta, mas na verdade não é resposta.
Religião pra mim se resume em uma unica coisa: Deus
Me dirijo a Ele todos os dias pq sinto sua presença em mim, sua proteção e vejo que minha fé me liga cada dia mais a Ele.
Assim que percebi que todas elas tinham seus lados podres eu resolvi limpar minha mente de pré-conceitos e começar a procurar em todas elas, o lado bom. Não saio por ai frequentando igrejas, mas qdo sou convidada por uma amiga, quase sempre aceito e cada vez q visito alguma igreja ou templo, confirmo minha decisão inicial.
Cresci no Catolicismo.Minha mãe é mto fervorosa e acredito que ela sobreviveu a tudo na sua vida devido a sua fé.
No entanto, rejeito a Igreja Catolica no que se refere a sua postura sobre o assunto pedofilia praticada pelos padres. São criminosos como qlq outra pessoa que pratique esse ato e devem ser punidos igualmente.
Vejo que qdo nossa mente se liberta sobre um determinado tema, tudo toma outra direção na sua vida. Assistir missa proferida por um padre q nao segue os preceitos da sua fé nao serve pra nada, melhor ler um livro do Paulo Coelho.Vc aprende mto mais.
O rabino roubou e se tornou publico o ato dele. Pergunto que moral ele tem pra pregar?
Ou vc se determina a seguir os preceitos para assumir uma posição de destaque em sua religião ou seja como nós, pecadores que vivemos a busca pelo crescimento sem ficar pedindo aos outros que nos sigam como exemplos. Do contrário a religião se transforma na política atual vista em todo o mundo, ou seja, uma vergonha absoluta.
É isso…
Deus esteja com vcs!
Rita
I think that religious dogmas belong to humans more than to God. Beliefs belong to humans’ thoughts and God.. well.. God is God! And when I say God I mean all the above together, plus.. infinity. I find difficult to put in words what God really means to me. On the other hand, in my opinion, dogmas are some kind of “orders” that came from the spiritual leaders of some particular societies. Some of them had to be ordered as the result of a particular historical condition, while others appeared as a result of.. how should I say it.. some fights between individual charismatically spiritual leaders. Usually they’ve been needed at a certain time. It’s only mankind way of being that prefer to prolongate the same ancient (or even wrong) rules for ever. Human being has been given some definite duties and rights on this earth, like: to be born, to go to an end of this terrestrial body, to love, to give birth, etc. Why is it so? This might be another subject to reflect upon. Among the other’s duties of our religious/spiritual leaders there is the duty of persuading us to accept these facts of life. With or without “updated” dogmas! And as long as one accepts these givens, he can think and live his life, his short time on this earth, in peace and happiness fulfillment. We are free to chose. To choose between doubts & questions & intolerance, etc. that bring us just sufferance and acceptance of the given facts of life that lets us enjoy every moment spent on earth. To follow strictly some rules (dogmas) without spiritual beliefs is good just for show up, for making the others to think you are a good believer and finally to be accepted as a member of a group, but.. it doesn’t make any real good to you. Just contrary! To break the rules but keep your beliefs, brings you the needed peace, even if the others might blame or even exclude you from the group. It’s their problem of intolerance not your problem regarding the faith you have.
Sorry! Does all these make any sense to you?
Hee ha the black ones going grey or what?
:)
Simple and clear…Well said Paul. I can feel your pilgrimage ???
God bless you
Love
Alexandra
“I have … a terrible need … shall I say the word? … of religion. Then I go out at night and paint the stars.” /Vincent van Gogh/
“But I always think that the best way to know God is to love many things? /Vincent van Gogh/
”(…)to love many things” and accept all religions to be different paths of One True God.
Love,
Asote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkvLq0TYiwI
Starry, starry night..
Thank you, Ilva Asote.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Very Good for Van Gogh and you
Thank you Paul, for touching the … problem into the core!!
..”To control my spiritual development”.
This is what all religions are trying to do.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Thanks Paul for to be free, is beautiful think like that. With this thougths the society grow up in peace, in compensive, in aceptance, in love and respec.
Thanks Paul and I think the same.
so do I.
Thanks for that Paul.
Love
Marie-Christine
I was looking for a quote from CS Lewis in his book “Mere Christianity” and came across this quote elsewhere – and thought of those people who think that the world would be a better place without religion.
”If atheism solved all human woe, then the Soviet Union would have been an empire of joy and dancing bunnies, instead of the land of corpses.” — John C Wright – Former Atheist
A very interesting topic, thank you Paulo! I am enjoying reading the responses.
I was not forced to go to church or brought up in any religion. At the age of five, god found me in a section of prairieland at the end of our street. A couple of months later, I found a church several blocks from home to go to and remained attending until early teen years when my family moved away to another city. I have not belonged to a religion since then.
Over the years it has been a pleasure to attend services in churches of various denomination of friends, feeling welcome. This way I find beauty everywhere.
At one time I lived with a priest and three nuns, and was invited to take communion with them several times every week, without being a catholic. Later, I gave up all in order to test faith, to find out what was inside of me, apart from being told what ‘should’ be thought, felt, believed. Through this experience I was able to find enough faith to overcome a tremendous amount of confusion, guilt, shame, and rediscovered the simple faith that was there when I was very small.
It is natural to question. For me, it is important to place faith above personalities. There are things this human mind will never fully comprehend. There are also things my soul cannot even put into words.
Actually, I know very little. Although there are truths, I do not know ‘the’ definitive truth. But am god’s child and have a reason for being here. I’m not a member of any religion, yet still find beauty every single day. Love to pray to god first thing every new day and give thanks again, before sleep.
It seems when a question is answered, a new door is opened, bringing more questions. I love this!! Tomorrow, I might learn something new about love, tolerance, peace. I strive to be the change i want to see in the world. Hoping to understand others, the world, and myself, a little better!
Much Love to All, Jane : ) xo
Hi everyone and Hi Paulo
it is the first time for me to write here.
My name is Nadia, I am Italian and apologize in advance if my English is not so good.
I have read your post about religions.
Well I have always had a conflictual relationship with the religion.
I grew up in a family where religion was not so important, let’s say that fro my mother it was just a ritual and that fro my father instead was something to avoid as much as possible.
I had anyhow my First Communion because it was just a normal thing to do, according to the general conventions, but I refused to have my Confirmation.
I had it when I was over 20, because I wanted to get married in the Church, which I did but not because my faith was so strong, but again just because it was conventional doing it.
My faith has always been weak then.
I have always had faith more in the human being, rather than in Something or Someone that I can’t see or I can’t talk to.
Growing older then and facing the difficulties that life quite often presents, I started questioning myself.
I looked at those people who have faith and that in faith find some comfort and peace, and in a way I envied them.
I had a child (she is now 14 years old) and I wanted her to have a religious education so she had here First Communion and the Confirmation.
I followed her instructions and I went with her to the Mass every Sunday, and I discovered that the ritual, the solemnity in it, was having some effect on me.
So I looked into my heart and I found that I can actually believe in God, but I realized that my way in believing in Him is extremely distant from what the Church says.
I mean I had to ask to the Priest a special allowance the have the communion during the First Communion and Confirmation of my child, because I am divorced and, according to the rules, the divorced people cannot have access to the sacraments.
Therefore, despite they say “The Church is your home”, I have always felt like a misfit, like I have not a complete right to stay there.
That priest, Don Vittorio, who I really like, told me that a good Christian is the one who is obeying the rules even if they are hard on you.
He also said that maybe my faith is stronger than is.
I am not really sure about that, but I think that religion for me is indeed a personal thing, that I want to keep in my hand.
I think that the Church, especially here in Italy, is quite far from the people and from the society.
I haven’t found yet my path, but I am looking for it and I hope to find it.
Ciao
Nadia
Namaste Nadia,
Your English is beautiful. I envy those with the gift of tongues. I can barely handle English. I tried to learn both French and Spanish at various times in my life and failed miserably at both. :-)
I do not believe all the Catholic Church teaches either, but I may be wrong. I don’t believe in excluding anyone, but I’ll let God decide whether or not I’m right. I believe the Church believes in what they are doing as much as I believe in what I do. God knows my heart and the mountains I’ve climbed.
I believe that Faith begins within ourselves… as you say “very personal.” My husband equates religion with sex… he doesn’t worship in public because he finds it distasteful. It sounds to me like you have strong Faith… just not as others define it.
I had rejected religion for a time and discovered Religion, as a way of life, begins within. I equate it with Jesus’ time in the desert. He went in knowing His power. He spent that time alone sorting out what he was taught, he tempted himself in many ways, and he came out knowing His path.
I wish you well on your path.
Love to you
Hi Nadia
as a catholic you can be divorced and receive the sacraments. Divorce does not exclude you, it is only when you are divorced and enter into a physical relationship with another that you are excluded from receiving communion.
God bless
Christine
I’m catholic and I read in the Gospels that even Jesus gave scandal, for his contemporary society, cause sometimes he broke some religious rule, suche as making miracle on Sunday or eat with sinners.
I also read that he had very good reasons for breaking these rules, such as help somebody who really believed in God and was sick, or helping people who had made mistakes to change their lives.
So I think that rules (even religious), have the aim to help people to live, but as times are changing, and mosto of rules are decided By men, somtimes they’re not correct ( I mean they can, sometimes, make injustices).
In those times society, and also religious authorities should be wise enough to understand that the rule is wrong for that particular case.
love
Chris
Beautifully said christina..I am of exactly the same opinion that with time things have to be changed..or it would be better to say, things have to be evolved..cuz with the changing time, if the ideology u believe in stuck then it goes far away from our daily lives..and even if we want to follow that, we find ourselves totally unable to do that..
thnx chris..
dear Paulo and friends,
i have a question.
what is the role of sex in religions?
does it have to do with god?
i believe it is a gift from god for everyone. and it is supposed to be simple. there is no rule for it. (you have to be loving person though) and i do not think it is just for reproduction, which is a miracle by the way.
maybe i am wrong to know about sex by asking questions because it is meant to know by experiencing it. but i would be happy if you can tell me what you think.
thanks + love
Dear chieko,
I think the problem of our religions today is that they put GOD up in heaven isolated and separated from us, from our daily life…
But if you go back to the origin of all religions GOD was not meant to be up there or in any particular place. GOD was/is (I believe) permanent present (omnipresence) not separated from us not looking from above counting our good or bad deeds..
If one thinks in this way you’ll find a place for his existence in every aspect of his life including sex, food, work, children, environment…
Namaste Chieko,
I spent the last decade studying the history of the role of sex in religion in order to heal my own pain where that is concerned. It lies in the shadows of every religion. Once upon a time, sex was a form of worship.
In Judaism, the Sabbath was a manifestation of Sh’kinah, the presence of God which is Female. Her Sabbath aspect was also called the Matronit, who has left Her Beloved on Temple Mount when the Jews dispersed after the Temple was destroyed by the Romans. According to Kabbalistic teachings, She followed Her children throughout the world and Her handmaiden, Lilith (Adam’s first wife made in the image of She but who left Adam when he tried to rape her), remains to serve Him as Hagar served Abraham.
Theoretically men channel He as they made love to their wives. This was performed four times within that twenty four hour period. I don’t pretend to know why four, but my guess is to fulfill the Tetragrammaton… the name of God (Yod Heh Vav Heh). Yod being He, the Divine and Vav being he within Creation Heh is She who brings life to the world in all her manifestations.
Theoretically this act brings the King and Queen closer to bringing forth the Messiah who will return Israel to God. I don’t know how this fares now that we have a Jewish based political system set up on that land, but Temple Mount is still a bone of contention… I write with a sigh.
Prayers and rituals accompany this rite. It’s rather beautiful to read. This is one reason why the Sabbath is a day of rest from work… a day of renewal.
People knew, once upon a time, that procreation was not the only power in sex. A growing number are rediscovering this today. I believe as Tarek, that God is not far away but can be found within Creation. I learned to use sex as a form of worship within my marriage. A thanksgiving and celebration of life and love. It’s more like a state of mind for me than a ritual however.
The revolution opened up sexual channels for many. I am an eternal optimist, so I believe that we shall someday find the middle ground where sex is concerned and we can use its power to bring forth the changes within to heal without. I know that it has with me.
Love to you
Sex and religion are one, just as the branch on a tree cannot be said to be a thing apart and separate from the tree itself. The tree reaches toward the sky, as does the branch, and every leaf, bud and tendril upon it.
Yet we are told that the fruits of this one branch are poison, that this branch should be cut off and thrown down – that it is not a part of the tree, and is actually opposed to it, although this branch receives its nourishment from the same roots, although it aspires toward the same one sky.
The sky does not oppose this branch, nor does the earth which feeds it. It is just another branch, reaching, aspiring skyward, producing fruits just as sweet and nourishing as any other – that is all.
Hello Everyone, Paulo,
Your books involved shaping my beliefs a lot. It was kinda like a process but now, stucked on and there’s nowhere to go.
When I was 3-4 years old I used to believe in that God will choose another prophet and it can be me. I truly believed in that and has always tried to be a good girl to handle this mission. I always told myself to be patient and nice to people, when I do a mistake I always tried to fix it as fair as it can be. One day when I was 8 years old I forgot to kiss my grand grandma before going to school. I felt guilty and upset, turned back from half of the way and kissed her. 15 mins later we lost her and my pure belief that “a prophet-to-be shoul behave nice” kept me away something that I’ll regret a lot.
Later than that I’ve been through with tough things and almost get to edge of losing my sanity. This part is full of disasters and I was just too young. I felt so dirty and sinful and said goodbye being prophet. However everything was out of my will.. I couldn’t tell it to myself. I took my chance on meditations but never took it as a religion for myself. They helped somehow but sometimes made me feel like I’m going more and more insane. So realistic nightmares, hallucinations and making true guesses on close future..
During that period, I decided to read Qur’an. I’m living in an Islamic secular country and my family is not religious people. I’m all free on my desicions. I started fasting and it was pretty surprising for my family. After a while I also read books from Rumi and other sufists. Sufism have always inspired me. There was new ideas in my mind and after reading the devil and miss prym and the alchemist I truly started to believe in that God is everywhere.
I mean, when you do sympathy with every living creature on this earth you can make a connection with them and you can seize the world and hug it. Loving someone starts with understanding it. You have to take your time to understand yourself first, as soon as you understand yourself you’ll love and embrace yourself with your ups and downs. Then you’ll see that we are all human and we can make mistakes, you’ll learn to be tolerant, you’ll learn to love something is not that beautiful at first sight or something faulty. I really needed to believe in that cuz I was perfectionalist and it was just tiring me. I was putting too much preassure on myself but I’ve never asked for more from other people.
In these period I had a few disasters too. Had to quit school and had to embrace my loved one with knowing the existance of another woman. He was deist and I told him how I see him and how I love him. Then he inspired from that too and started reading about sufism. When a person upsets me I never hate it but feel sorry for him/her. I’m still training myself about to forgive and to forget.
I can’t tell that I’m doing good but still, I’m trying. I have a great love in my heart and when I try to give it to someone else it just can be scary. On the other hand I never want to be under property of someone, maybe I’m greedy. I always want to be free and never feel myself belong to anywhere, sometimes that makes me feel so empty but whenever I try to have a connection with somewhere or someone I just feel so awkward and bothered.
For more than a year I’m living an isolated life almost from everything. I’m listening myself and making some plans for future education. New government is using religion for their aims and this keeps me away from Islam. I still believe in our prophet and God but not in the way I used to do.
Now my belief is in same direction and getting stronger and weaker sometimes. I do believe in that we are all reflections of God and we are the one who is looking at mirror, we are the mirror, we are the face on the mirror, we are the one who sees it. What I’ve been through with is just like Santiago’s story. I’m calling myself God Particle and claiming my place in creation. It feels like a promotion from a prophet candidate and a God Particle. Because God is in everything and everywhere.
that grand mom thing is so sweet…:)
The fact is that until humans understand that we are all extensions of one divine force and continue to divide spirituallity into dogmas and rules far away from the spontaneous spiritual experience, hypocresy, fanaticism, prejudices and wars will continue. It’s more than time to learn from history.
Namaste,
The question at hand is “How far can we go, when we realize that what the priest or the rabbi, or the imam says goes against our beliefs?” We can go where the Spirit leads us. If the Spirit leads us to harm another, it’s not the Spirit. This is my line in the sand.
I’ve never understood about religious hierarchies to be honest. Maybe I’m New Age, but I believe we all have a Gnosis which is whispered to us from God. We are all equal in the eyes of God. Once upon a time, Christians who gathered together to worship drew lots to see who would read the Gospels and interpret them to the gathering of believers, even children. This person broke the bread and fed their community. Christians in Alexandria often practiced a variety of religions simultaneously.
Christ broke a lot of rules and laughed at those who called Him on it. The big 10 are the same no matter what religion you follow and the basic law of behavior in every religion is do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Paul said Faith in Action is Love. In Catholic School, I was taught that religion is a way of life, so Faith in Action is Religion as well. We may use a variety of names and expression, but we all serve the Divine in our various ways.
Large groups of people feel that organized religion has locked them out. Here in the United States, religion has been politicized to the point where I was told how to vote by our bishop. I reject that notion, although I know that some nations are theocracies, but I believe politics is “unto Caesar” while religion is “unto God.”
Love to you
I very much agree with you, Elaine, that “here in the United States, religion has been politicized.” This politicization of religion (or should I say the religionization of politics and the state) is a growing trend in our country and a very dangerous one, in my view. More and more I am hearing Americans refer to the US as a “Christian nation,” as though it were exclusively Christian, formed by and solely for Christians. Inherent within the strain of belief – and not at all a new idea in itself – is the concept of this country as a sort of “Promised Land” and it’s people The Chosen people of God, the only true God. What is dangerous and very disturbing about this growing ideology is that many Americans are starting to view this country as though it WERE a sort of theocracy – as though, guided by the one and only true God, it can do no wrong.
This is a mess, a colossal mess, we are getting ourselves into by allowing the perpetuation and growth of this ideology, as, in doing so, we are positioning ourselves in such a way that we, as a nation, are becoming unable to question our own actions and motivations in the world. All that we do is “right in the eyes of God” because we are God’s chosen people – the United States is God’s chosen country.
This growing viewpoint detrimentally affects internal political affairs as well. Although in accordance with our constitution we are guaranteed a “separation of church and state” – meaning not only that the state will not interfere with the free practice of religion, but that religious institutions have no right to impose their beliefs in state affairs – and yet, left and right, we are witnessing the passing of bills which infringe upon this right by instituting laws which reflect the beliefs of of certain religions and yet pertain to all citizens.
For example, laws which prohibit civil same-sex marriages. The prohibition of same-sex marriage is solely based upon the moral conclusions drawn by particular religious denominations who have successfully sought to implement their religious dogmas in the arena of civil and even criminal law. The argument against same-sex marriage has no rational theoretical basis whatsoever in legal terms, and yet it has been made into laws which affect the lives of all, even the non-religious. This is just one example, however; there are many.
I’ll mention just one other and then I’ll quit: the absolutely inane refusal to teach evolution in public schools, although evolution is not a “theory” of speculation or a mere “opinion” but scientific fact which serves as the essential foundation for further understanding in many of the sciences. At the request of the church and it’s insistence that we keep our children locked in the dark closet of ignorance, we are robbing the future generations of essential knowledge. We are breeding a generation of ignorants who will be able to recite the scriptures verbatim, but will be wholly ungrounded in scientific knowledge of the manifest world.
In the United States the church is rapidly encroaching upon the territory which, by our founders, was laid out as the sole proprietorship of the state. Reason is falling prey to superstition and arbitrary religious dogma at a rapid and alarming rate. Nor do I see this this trend turning around any time in the near future.
It is very sad, sad indeed.
Sincerely,
Savita
If I were not to follow my faith, but to decide for myself what is wrong or right – without any guidance. How do I know that I would be right? I may think I am right, but I am not perfect. I could think I know better than God. Wouldn’t that be the sin of pride?
Os homens santos reconhecem-se pelas suas palavras e pelos seus actos, pela sua humildade e pela sua incomensurável tolerância. Normalmente não fazem pedidos, dão conselhos. Não aponto o dedo, mostram caminhos. Não culpabilizam, perdoam. Nem sempre é fácil segui-los, mas também não é fácil seguir um maratonista, um velocista. Parece-nos impossível percorrer aquelas distâncias naqueles tempos. Fazemos os nossos 42 km ou os nossos 100 m da forma que mais jeito nos dá.
Os Papas, Rabis, Ímãs são homens mais ou menos preparados, mais ou menos distantes, mais ou menos dogmáticos. Todos eles terão o entendimento suficiente para orientar os seus seguidores, mas nem sempre estarão dispostos a entender Deus, a estar próximo dEle, a amá-Lo. E em alguns casos o discípulo suplantará o mestre e nisso não poderá haver pecado.
Padre Pio foi perseguido por alguns membros da Igreja e depois a Mesma Igreja que o condenou, canonizou-o. Pensar o contrário do Mestre não é o mesmo que ofender a Deus.
No fundo, a regra é simples: “Amai-vos uns aos outros” e o resto vem de si.
PAX
Luv to all!
I’m a Muslim and I think one’s spirituality is as important as being confined to the religious boundaries.If u know yourself, your strengths,your weaknesses and fully aware of your power to change anything around you it only means you have conquered yourself and your inner soul and your outer worlds are connected through only one thing.Your belief in THE DIVINE.. and there is only one supreme power and that is Allah and when you realize HIM you love doing things for HIM you love confining yourself to the rules HIS religion has set.
with regards and love.
Benz.
Where is the truth?
Is it in me or is it outside of me?
Is it subject to my emotions and my feelings?
Or is it objective and independent of me?
Those are valid questions…
another one…
Where is the truth, is it in Qur’an or is it in the Bible?
watch: http://tinyurl.com/qby5xo
Despeville
Paulo – Excellent question. I was raised a Catholic, an ideology filled with traditions and teachings that I love. I am always at work to try to make my religion more alive, more inclusive, less judgmental and patriarchal. As such, I feel I have a right to criticize it, noting the many things that I find ridiculous or unjust about it. That said, my relationship with God (especially the Divine Mother) is my own and personal. Only God and myself know what has gone between us, who I am and what my soul’s purpose is. No person on earth knows this and has the right to tell me what that should look like. It is between me and God. Religion is for community, creating a mechanism that allows me to share faith in God with others, enjoying traditions and teachings that have value to me, and history with my family. It also gives me a bedrock of rules and ideas with which to start with as I go out into the world and learn about other religions, other beliefs. This foundation is important in my opinion, especially for children – a place from which to develop a sense of right and wrong, morality and conscience. And church provides a place where lost souls can come to find guidance, an ear, a road back, whatever may be needed, fulfilling a very important role in the world, regardless of which faith we hone in on. This is extremely important to society. But we must realize that religions have been sculpted, re-cast and re-configured by men in all their flawed humanity. Therefore, they make mistakes, are short-sighted, make rules that don’t always fit everyone and have agendas for community that do not have anything to do with the individual and his/her faith relationship with God. I am a Christian, and as such I start from that point of view regarding right and wrong and my life. But do I think Christ/God will love me less if I miss Mass or if I feel in my heart that premarital sex is not a sin?….no. Do I have the right to judge others who don’t follow the “rules?” No. My relationship with God is strong and very much alive. I am a sinner. But I am immensely loved by God and never alone. Each and ever moral question that I might question in the rule of faith I have taken the time to think about, learn about, explore, so as to come to a position of faith, belief as best i can. I have played both sides, and come to a decision. And knowing I have done due diligence from all angles, I am strong in knowing I can face God and say this is what I think, this is what I did, this was in my heart….if I was wrong in my thinking, my actions, forgive me….but I tried to do my best, and you know, God, I never took the easy answer just because it was easy, I tried instead to be true to myself and true to my love for You. With love….K
Hello Everyone ;) ..here’s a song that we all know… just imagine there’s no countries and no religion too… there won’t be any wars.. IMAGINE ALL THE PEOPLE LIVING LIFE IN PEACE!!..RARADISE indeed!…let us all keep dreaming about it..after all, dreams really do come true… ;) … oxoxxo…
**IMAGINE**
Imagine there’s no Heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one
Beautiful jonh Lennon´s song. He imagin was rigth, He see the future.
Thank you for put this song here.
“Religion is a defense against religious experience. – Carl Jung”
I totally agree with this statement.
Religions are mainly meant to organize and regulate the powers and numinosity of the religious experience that not every one is able to comprehend and be deal with directly and individually..
I like very much Carl Jung
I have prayed with people from many different traditions and have learned much from each one. I have come to the conclusion that I do not particularly like organized religions. I prefer to seek my path to the Divine by myself. Through meditation , sitting or moving, I do my best to connect and stay connected to the Christ Light, or energy. I ask for guidance and protection and trust that I will receive it.
Our life requires a certain virtue and skill to be lived as good as possible, or to be lived at all. One of this skills is to make the right choices in order to improve ourselves in our environment and society…we have the opportunity to choose to believe or not to believe. If you believe everything makes sense in this world, and if you don’t believe you hide behind dogmas. Let us become Alchemists of a new time where we transform this lead around us into gold through the eternal spirit and truth that flows through our souls and heart and is named -God
The person I am today is the product of my past experiences including religion.
I was born into a strict Catholic family and learned to obey the rules of the Church at all costs! I was educated in private Convent Schools, then finally spent several years as a nun in a Religious Congregation of Ignatian Foundation doing Retreat work and Teaching until finally I left, being convinced that this was no longer my ‘vocation’.
Since then I have been living and working in a Muslim country in the Middle East. This has been a fruitful experience for me – to get to know some wonderful people from different religious backgrounds.
I believe in personal, spiritual freedom because it is only in freedom that we can relate to God and others and find peace. Religious teachings can and should help us to reach this spiritual fulfilment. Now, I do not see others as belonging to a particular religion but rather as my brothers and sisters interacting with each other on all levels. Of course there are fanatics/radicals from all backgrounds but I prefer to ignore this.
As for the Catholic Church I do not agree with some of its present-day teachings. God is ETERNAL. He is in MOTION. He never remains still at a fixed moment in time. When Christ said ” And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church..” he meant what he said. Buildings need constant care and renewal to remain structurally sound. In the Catholic Tradition the Pope is the representative of St. Peter. Surely it was not in God’s plan that Popes would sit with a Holy Book and watch the Church fall down around them!
The world is on the move. We are exploring outer-space, new advances are being made in medicine, science and technology. We are facing new and unforeseen challenges. I think that famous influencial scientists, and spiritual scholars and writers such as Paulo Coelho should not be shy of voicing their opinions on these urgent matters and maybe they could help to ensure that the Church will stand the test of time.
Pope John XXIII opened the windows on the Church with the Second Vatican Council, but this was not enough. In the meantime the world is moving on and the ‘faithful’ are in need of help and guidance.
Hi
Religion is a experience by way which you want to experience the divine in your very own fashion. It about how much satisfied you are at the end of day, in my life i found that helping other’s (humanity) has the biggestes followers because it simply makes you happy and provides the path called sprituality.
I don’t know,
according to the christian morality rules
I’m a terrible woman living in sin
I have a difficuly with going to the church and every time
the priest speaks Gods name it is a he and he his a lord
while to me God has no gender or both genders.
I doubt if Jesus ever lived and if he lived his life-story
as it is told in the gospels really is true and how much of it that has been changed to build up the new religion.
I would like to believe he did live and that he did if not everything a lot of what is written and that he did preach love above everything, does my wish count? or is it too feeble?
Because there were other things he also said (according to the gospels) I can not take to my heart.
I can not cherish a religion used by so many churches and priests to turn the lives of millions of people to a hell.
Every day 90 women in Africa die because they have been forced to make an illegal abortion. Illegal because the different religions and the laws forbid them to make it. And forced because if women were not left in the mercy of a paternal culture where money goes before love – they would be able to get education and they would have the force to decide over their own bodies.
90 African women – how many are they not in the whole world?
The abortion is as good as any question to put light in the “dogmas” and how far we are ready to go to obey them.
Thanks Hildegard!! I’ll be singing that all night! Luckily I know the words. :)
I think the best argument about homosexuality is the non-religious one. Treat people the way you want to be treated. That’s the Golden Rule. At the same time, if homosexuality makes you uncomfortable, you have a right to that and you should not shun it. You have a right to dislike homosexuality. But you have no right to impose on those who have chosen to live different private lives than you. And you have no right to hurt them and block their civil rights. Religion ought not be used in the discussion. When it is used, it trivializes the topic.
Dearest Paulo and everyone here,
I signed on to go to the Warrior of Light (I almost typed Worrier which is what I’m doing right now) blog as I have something on my mind (nothing to do with religion) but this blog answered a question for me.
I couldn’t understand when I read that you Paulo had reverted to Catholicism (I only recently found out). I mean no disrespect as I realise everyone is entitled to their beliefs but for me, everything about you was spiritual and not held within the realms of organised religion. I was a devout Catholic but lost my faith ten years ago and I couldn’t understand how you made your way back. I don’t believe one can go back. It like finding out Santa Claus isn’t real. How can one believe again? I spoke to a friend about it and she said ‘why don’t you ask him?’ I have mulled it over and I couldn’t bring myself to ask you as I thought I may offend you or hurt your feelings which I obviously didn’t want to do as without ever knowing you, you have been a big part of my life.
My mom is a Catholic and she always says she takes what she wants from her religion. My mom is one of the most beautiful people I know (both inside and out). I have never agreed with this. I think if you give yourself a label, you should adhere to it which is what I always did when I practised.
I then starting thinking that so many people call themselves Christians yet are so judgemental and really never take into consideration how hard life is on all of us. Aren’t Christians supposed to put others before themselves? That goes against human nature. Everyone should be first in their own life. I know when I am happy (because I take care of myself and fulfil my needs first) I have so much more to offer everyone else.
I believe in a Higher Power, something greater than I because it makes me feel safer and not so alone in this world but if that interferred with my ability to recognise that each and every one of us struggles with life daily, I would choose to no longer believe because it would be to the detriment of someone else. I could not knowingly believe in something which judged someone else. No one has the right to judge and anyone who believes they do is not thinking for themselves. We all react to situations differently. Until we are in a situation, we do not know how we will react. Everything is relative. I always say ‘when they have walked in my shoes, they can judge me’. No one ever will ever have that right because I will be the only one on my path in life.
I’m actually teary now as I know my Angels knew I needed this question to be answered from Paulo. It is important to me for reasons I don’t quite understand right now. I know I will spend the night thinking about it which I’m prone to do.
We are each no better nor worse than one another, we are equal in everything because what we bring into this world is what we take with us….ourselves. We are each unique and perfect in our own way at any given time.
I believe people are part of organised religions because they need to feel a part of the community. It’s the easy way out, to be like everyone else. I wish people would wake up and realise we are not like one another. We are all different. Therein lies the perfection. Thank you Paulo and everyone.
Love and joy :)
I believe man has a need to believe in something higher than himself for the pursuit of life itself,otherwise there would not be any purpose. That power – call it God, Allah, Buddah, him whatever – is what drives man to reach his potential.
Religion per se is not that important once you have gained that understanding.
I believe all religions should be taught to children as a way to break down barriers between us, not to instill hate.
“All men are equal in front of God”
I read so many nice beliefs about religion in this site!
I think religion was a symbol of kindness to humans more, if there were not priests/leaders/…. that decolor some parts and highlight some other parts of it. The source of this kindness, that we call god, sends his(! why not her) words to humans, simply by a human, some that are well known for being honest. how god is friendly! and close! then he stes us free for trial&error, you can do whatever you want, and still be a christ/moslem/jewish, he never rejects us! …..feels gooood
When we look for God, he is there.
Look for him through prayer.
a priest is a informant, adviser for christ. They aren’t Christ. We need confirmation. We need reassurance and support. Love Gods messengers because they love Christ. Too many look for miracles.
God is in the church because faithful prayer. God is in all of our hearts if we look for him.
Myself I am writting a book base on religion, I do not believe in any of them, but I believe that something superior to us is over our lives.
In a daily basis I confront my own wife and her church mates who have influence her life in such fanatic way, this is what I call dogmatism, is nothing bad in looking for the message of Jesus, but following everyone own path, at first I though that our relationship was suppoused to improve, but has been the opposite, this situation motivate me to start to wirite, “UNA VIDA CON DIOS Y SIN RELIGION ES POSIBLE” “A LIFE WITH GOD BUT, WITHOUT RELIGION IT IS POSSIBLE”
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE TITLE
religion rules responds only to our needs
I feel that religion is just like the ‘personal legend’ and the ‘personal devil’. Its a very personal journey. However we need a guide and proper guideposts to take us through this most important journey in our life. The guide could be a religion or a person or a thought or a book or a vision. However blessed are the few who have a powerful guide and who are able to imbibe the spirit of the guide, be it a vision or a person or a flower and transform the thinking into the spiritual energy for this personal journey.
To me religion, customs, traditions, scriptures and spirituality are different dimensions.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. N O O N E comes to the Father E X C E P T through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
Gospel of John 14:6-7 ESV Bible
How much room for a religious buffet do you see in words:”NO ONE” and “EXCEPT”?
Those words do mean what they mean…
You have only two options:
#1 Those words were spoken by a madman and a liar and you can careless about them.
The Bible, the witness of scriptures, peole, signs and history deny such a conclusion.
#2 Those words were spoken by and are PROVEN and CONFIRMED words of GOD. Yes, Jesus Christ is incarnated and eternal GOD visiting this earth in flesh for about 33 years to show you a way and allow you to find a meaning and context in His person.
Either or. There is no two ways about it. May Triune eternal God open your eyes to this if you do not know the truth that sets free or you deny it.
Blessings,
Despeville
Hi Despeville,
I disagree with you, there are more than two options. Off course if you look at it from other religions points of views there are more ways to get to God. But also looking at it from a Christian point of view. Perhaps not the “standard” Christian way of looking at things… but let me explain what I’m talking about.
Some time ago I read The Gospel of Thomas, it contains all the logions and the gnostic explanations from the writer, who is a professor in philosphy and studied the bible and this gospel for many years.
As you probably know the Gospel of Thomas is not been made part of the bible, in “regular” Christianity because it was not proven these are words of God.
According to me its been kept out of the Bible because of the fear of the upcoming church of not having any control over people since this gospel is all about finding and listening to your “inner Christ”, which would leave the control loving church with no control power over their followers whatsoever.
Next to that it does not combine well with some of the other things that are in the bible. But neither do a lot of things that did end up in the Bible. But most importantly; the original writings were found in the same cave in Qumran as where the dead sea rolls were found, and they were written in the same time frame as parts of the bible.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. N O O N E comes to the Father E X C E P T through me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on you do know him and have seen him.”
The way this would be explained if you keep this Gospel and the gnostic explanation in mind, Paulo please correct me if I’m wrong, is that you first have to refind your “inner Christ” before you can get to the truth. It goes a bit far to explain here how you could find your inner Christ, according to this professor, but it boils down to the following; Everybody has Christ within him/herself, we just forgotten how to find him, how to wake him up because we keep on walking after others to tell us the “truth”.
So.. after reading your comment and especially the last lines I am pretty convinced you will disagree with this Gospel in general, correct me if I’m wrong. What I want to make clear here is that there are more than two options to explain this sentence from the Bible. Whether one has faith in this Gospel or not.
Love,
Mariëlle
Olá,
escrevo em português, pelo meu limitado conhecimento da língua inglesa, assim não cometo tantos equívocos.
Sigo o espiritismo, segundo Kardec. Deixei de lado o catolicismo ha muito tempo, por várias razões , que não são importantes no momento.
Dogmas, são criações humanas, acredito que feitos para a dominação ou manipulação de determinadas criaturas. Por algum tempo em nossa história, eles até foram importantes, principalmente para a moralização dos povos, não entrando no mérito de quem eles beneficiaram.
Vivemos, hoje, uma etapa diferente. Os dogmas não são mais viáveis, pelo simples fato de as pessoas não quererem ser subjugadas ou dominadas. O ser humano, de certa forma, boa ou ruim, acabou evoluindo e, com ele, seus conceitos de certo e errado, Deus e demônio, céu e inferno. As coisas todas em que acreditamos hoje não dependem de dogmas, mas de fé. Hoje, a convicção em nossas crenças, não falo sobre acreditar em Deus ou em espíritos, são muito mais consistentes e por isso mesmo não conseguimos ir contra elas, mesmo que o rabino, o padre ou quem quer que seja nos peça isso.
Para sermos capazes de distinguir as coisas que são realmente importantes para nós e não sermos manipulados pela nossa religião ou crença, precisamos questionar a veracidade de tudo o que nos é fornecido. Sem questionamento caímos no lugar comum.
Acho que é isso.
Um grande abraço.
Concerning religion, I think that it is important that every individual person thinks by him or her self, what do I believe about GOD? What kind of God do I believe in? Is God my friend or do I fear Him or Her? And so on
Namaskar
Carolina
I will kindly disagree.
If it is all up to us then Jesus was wasting his time down here.
The Scripture is as goog as yesterday’s newspaper.
You might start worship of your dog as just as good.
What you, me, she, he thinks or feels about it is pointless.
What matters is what GOD thinks and says about it and He has spoken clearly in his Word.
Blessings,
Despeville
I have long felt that the standing religious orders are failing the needs of the flocks to which they claim to guide. The old dogmas are failing because the metaphors of faith have ceased to make sense to the people. Religion must evolve or it dies, just like everything else.
Faith is the spiritual birth of the heart. Religion is “supposed” to help the individual find the path to that faith, but has become instead a moral institutional set of rules rather than directions and the wretched state most individuals find themselves in at present is due to lack of faith and belief because their directions no longer make sense.
On homosexuality and religion, we must all realize that ninety percent of ALL religious dogma is based on the cultural standards of the time and place they were written in. The prophets always seem to rebel AGAINST these rigid structures.
We must always remember that judgement is NOT up to us, it is up to God and that Christ preached forgiveness and love. All things exist because God or the Universe or the Mother or whatever you want to call IT, made them so. We are all the Creator’s creations. Nothing is accidental, therefore the must be a reason and a purpose for all of us and those who slander one of the Creator’s creations, slanders ALL.
Sem fé não se chega em lugar nenhum
Sem fé, não se vai a lugar nenhum.
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