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No one can lose anyone, because no one owns anyone.
Paulo Coelho
Hi dear Paulo
Is it true?!…
Oh what a relief!!!
Thanks
[Reply]
Ho Bisogno del contatto diretto con Paulo o con chi puo’ gestire delle informazioni da rivolgere direttamente a lui! La mia email porta il suo nome e vi prego di contattarmi al piu’ presto! Non e’ uno scherzo ne una cazzata da fan perche’ non ho miti o personaggi che adoro! So’ che ho del materiale interessante per lui! Fatemi arrivare a parlarci anche se non direttamente ! ALLA DIREZIONE DEL BLOG E A CHI PUO’ AIUTARMI! paulocoelho777@yahoo.it
[Reply]
Es cierto nadie le pertenece a nadie, pero que hay de cuando tu te llevas a alguien en el corazon. Eso que te llevas de esa personaes tuyo y de nadie mas. Aunque esa persona este en otra parte, viviendo su vida con alguien mas, siempre estara contigo por que tu asi lo deseas. Se convierte en tu despertar y anochecer, va a todas partes contigo, incluso te cuida y te da consejos. Pienso que por que aun que no este contigo fisicamente tu alma y la de esa otra persona ya quedaron ligadas para siempre. Y se que tal vez digan que no soy normal por decir estas locuras pero creanme lo he experimentado yo misma. El alma es algo tan fragil y tan especial que uno se puede quedar perdido en alguna parte con alguna persona. Nadie es dueno de nadie pero uno mismo decide a quien se lleva en el corazon.
En cuanto a ser autoritario con un novio o novia eso ya es otro tema, aburrido por cierto, por que el machismo abunda en mi cultura y pues es tema que no pasara a caducar.
Mi idea se centra mas en: “eres mio por que yo lo decido, no te molesto, ni te causo ningun dolor, pero eres mio por que te llevo en el corazon y no te olvido, tengo todavia tu sabor en los labios y aun recuerdo la luz de tu mirada, tu voz, y todo eso que en algun momento de nuestro caminar compartimos, eso es mio, tu eres mio hasta que decida dejarte ir de mi corazon y de mi vida, eres mio aunque tu no lo sepas, ere mio aunque no me pertenescas.”
Chicos los dejo estoy cansada, voy a dormir…
hasta pronto.
[Reply]
Namaste,
I love this quote. I learned this concept years ago, I think from Taoism. It’s helped me through life.
Love to you
[Reply]
When there is a feeling of lost in my life there is a moment that I am seperated of the heart. After the storm, that i surrendered by surfing on the waves instead of getting drowned by emotions, i feel… that what i thought it was a lost… all is one in every particle that i is, is you is me too…
Love
HIldegarde
xxx
[Reply]
Hildegarde Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
so yes nothing is yours all is us…
[Reply]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8JI_wlNEck
When I need you.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
[Reply]
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:38 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vghj4bqDQIw&feature=fvw
But what do you say to taking chances,
What do you say to jumping off the edge?
Never knowing if there’s solid ground below
Or hand to hold, or hell to pay,
What do you say,
What do you say?
Love doesn’t need this solid ground below, she makes us jump and jump :D and fly and fly :D
[Reply]
THELMA Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 9:32 am
Thank you Annie, swan, for reminding me .. It seems that together with Love we need the …LEAP of FAITH!!!! ;-]
LOVE,
Thelma xxxx
[Reply]
As long as we love someone, think of him, dream of him, have him in our heart and mind his belongs to us and our … world!
As an English song from my times says: ‘When I need you I just close my eyes and I am with you…’!!!
If this is .. mutual then it is Paradise! ;-]
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
[Reply]
Être normal c’est être conforme aux normes sociales ou à celles d’un groupe auquel on appartient ou l’on souhaite appartenir. Être normal c’est être un masque réfléchissant ce qu’on attend de vous en tant qu’individu faisant parti d’une catégorie sociale déterminée. Pour y parvenir il faut se démunir de tout signe distinctif physique ou moral. Il faut s’effacer dans la foule, s’imprégner des tendances actuelles, être quelqu’un de branché!! Il faut s’habiller, se coiffer, se comporter suivant des modèles fixes afin d’affirmer son appartenance à un ensemble déterminé.
Être normal peut être considéré comme une notion géographique qui change de figure suivant le lieu. Ce qui est normal ici, ne l’est pas forcément là bas. Être normal c’est être le prophète des valeurs qui font la distinction d’une culture mais qui affirment surtout la conformité et l’homogénéité du groupe.
Ceci ne rime-t-il pas avec la richesse culturelle de ce monde?
Donc il n’y a pas un seul être normal mais il y en a plusieurs différents suivant leur origine (là c’est la théorie de relativité d’Einstein qui s’applique) et qui se discutent le pouvoir dans ce monde. On cherche à aller plus loin en harmonisant les critères de normalité par une arme fatale qui s’appelle la mondialisation. Une arme contre l’originalité, la tolérance,..contre l’humain…
[Reply]
“If you love something, set it free.
If it comes back, it’s yours;
if it doesn’t, it never was.”
I like this saying a lot, but I would probably change it to read:
If you love something, set it free.
If it continues to come back, it’s yours,
but only for as long as it stays of its own free will.
If it doesn’t come back, just remember
that it was never really “yours” anyway.
[Reply]
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
I really don’t like this saying.. I think whether it comes back or not , it is never yours…
Love and Graditude
Annie
[Reply]
Catherine Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
i have to say im agreeing with you also Annie -
was it ever ‘ours’ in the first case!?
;o)
[Reply]
Daniel Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 12:09 am
I am deluded because I’m torn between two ideas: that love between two people is something they possess together; and the idea that the entire concept of “I” “me” “mine” “ours” is completely ridiculous. The head and the heart again I guess, living side by side. The head full of ideas and thoughts is always the one that tries to make excuses for possession and domination, lucky the heart is so subtle in it’s own knowledge, otherwise there would be a raging battle!
[Reply]
Savita Vega Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 4:50 am
I am thinking of it this way: some birds - doves, geese, eagles, swans, for example - do mate for life, but they don’t refer to “contracts of ownership” in this matter - they mate for life, ONE DAY AT A TIME. They return to same partner, some to the same nesting ground or even the same nest, over and over again, year after year. That return IS their proof of commitment, the PROOF of their mutual bond. They don’t return because they HAVE TO. They COOSE to return - they make that choice, without coercion, of their own free will. That, I think, is miraculous. That, I believe, is love.
Yes, someone could make the argument that this is not love at all but merely instinct. It doesn’t matter. To me, it still stands as an example of what a “lifelong commitment” should be: a free choice made over and over again, season by season, day by day, hour by hour.
This is as it should be, I think, with soul mates.
[Reply]
Annie Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 9:37 am
Dear Savita, no bird mates for life..and generally no bird or any animal species truly mates for life. At the most you can say that they are socially monogamous.(they share a nest, raise the young ones until one of the pair dies..) But when saying socially monogamous, that doesn’t mean they are sexually monogamous(one or more of the breeding pair has actually mated with another individual)-
Lynn Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 2:01 pm
yes, I agree with you Savita, in reality, often, if you look closely, I think that is how it is.
Alexandra Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 8:59 am
Hmmmmmmmmm. Sounds great, but why taking the risk???
I talk about all the tests to see ” he/she really loves me”?
Is fair?
[Reply]
Annie Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 10:15 am
Love your new photo, Savita!
[Reply]
We are all one, nature is against us,for our faults, or for our missed acts, we need compassion, ethics and balance, we need to be born again.Union for surviving.
[Reply]
Definitely a lovely quote.
I’ve been pondering over the lost relationship with a friend of mine for the past three days. But when I go through the quote now, I belive that I’ven’t lost him, but he is always with me. He has his own identity and I’ve mine. Yes, I cannot lose him, because I don’t own him. It’s truely a detached attachment.
We come from nowhere and goes nowhere. We own nothing so lose nothing.
All the conversations are interesting.
Thanks for the quote.
[Reply]
Lovely conversations. Loved to read them, with much interest. Particularly, Thelma, Alexandra, Aditya, Savita Vega and Laxmi.
Keep it up.
Ashwinji
[Reply]
THELMA Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Ashwinji, thank YOU! Just join us!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
[Reply]
Alexandra Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
Me???Ohhh, how kind…Thank you.Have a nice week end.
Love
Alexandra
[Reply]
Savita Vega Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Nice to meet you, Ashwinji. Thanks! And as Thelma says, you needn’t just read - we’d love to hear your thoughts too.
Sincerely,
Savita
[Reply]
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
They are great aren’t they ? :D
[Reply]
THELMA Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 8:52 pm
Without You, Swannie, we are nothing!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
[Reply]
Alexandra Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 9:00 am
You too are great dear Annie. One of the best!!!
Love your posts and your kind way of being.
Take care
Love
Alexandra
[Reply]
Laxmi Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
Thanks Ashwinji. As others said please feel free to join in.
love,
Laxmi
[Reply]
I have felt a strong reaction to this quote, since it was first published on Facebook….
I believe you can ~lose~ someone without “owning” them….. or -”ownership”…because between two people there is also “relationship” and/or “partnership”.
When two people seperate, from “relationship or partnership” … for, whatever reason, a loss occurs, a ~vacancy~ is created and a “mending” or “repair” of what was must take place.
But, I believe, it is not about “ownership”…more about re-structuring, re-buildingand often about growth…
a friend of my young son, wrote an interesting status the other day - “I have learnt more from what I have left or lost, than from what I have kept”
best thoughts….
[Reply]
memories are engraved in our hears and minds even surgery cant take it away. we never lose anyone. we never lose the memories. not until we become old and be forgetful. worse, amnesia.
today is yesterday. leave it behind or bring it with you.
http://jrmlchglvd.wordpress.com/
[Reply]
We are brought into this world empty handed from a place unknown, only possession being the devine love that nurtures us all thorugh our lives till we are taken back to where we belong. As we grow up we our vision gets blinded by the veil of materialistic pursuits and possessions. We believe that not only worldly things but also the people in our lives are our possession. We own them etc. For most of us this blindness goes from bad to worse as our life progressess. Every new success every new achievement blinds us further so much so that we fails to understand that this life is just a dream and we will have to wake out of it some day for sure. Millions have come and gone, they came empty handed and left empty handed - they even had to leave their bodies behind. We are like machines say a computer our body is the hardware but the life what makes this machine run is the software and thats our soul. Soul has no form or shape - its the reflection of the devine and is drawn to the creator. It longs for the union where in the lover becomes one with the love. So where is the question of owning or losing someone or something. When you are not even master of your ownself how can you own someone else. Its something that ignorant people use to help themselves live a lower life.
[Reply]
“Always On Your Side”
My yesterdays are all boxed up and neatly put away
But every now and then you come to mind
Cause you were always waiting to be picked to play the game
But when your name was called, you found a place to hide
When you knew that I was always on your side
Well everything was easy then, so sweet and innocent
My demons and my angels reappear
Leavin’ only traces of the man you thought I’d be
Too afraid to hear the words I always feared
Leavin’ you with only questions all these years
But is there someplace far away, someplace where all is clear
Easy to start over with the ones you hold so dear
Or are you left to wonder, all alone, eternally
This isn’t how it’s really meant to be
No it isn’t how it’s really meant to be
Well they say that love is in the air, never is it clear,
How to pull it close and make it stay
Butterflies are free to fly, and so they fly away
And I’m left to carry on and wonder why
Even through it all, I’m always on your side
But is there someplace far away, someplace where all is clear
Easy to start over with the ones you hold so dear
Or are you left to wonder, all alone, eternally
This isn’t how it’s really meant to be
No it isn’t how it’s really meant to be
Well they say that love is in the air, never is it clear
How to pull it close and make it stay
Butterflies are free to fly, why do they fly away
Leavin’ me to carry on and wonder why
Was it you that kept me wondering through this life
When you know that I was always on your side
Sheryl Crow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0nvlpxHKpY
Yes….”Sting” again….
[Reply]
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 12:56 am
Thank you Satoraki!! <3
[Reply]
.. i think so..
but perhaps we lose touch with someone..
ie: who they are..
[Reply]
Catherine Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
and lose them also when we lose their respect.. and they ours.
[Reply]
lol Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 8:39 pm
it’s over when your heart is free
the princess remains caged by the monster until the real love frees her
not the first time fall for the wrong soul, but i’m free
[Reply]
sowrong Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 4:17 am
just sorry i ever got in this, so wrong
but well you live you learn
just hope im liberated from this karma
i feel i lost my mind
If you need somebody, call my name
If you want someone, you can do the same
If you want to keep something precious
You got to lock it up and throw away the key
If you want to hold onto your possession
Dont even think about me
If you love somebody, set them free
If its a mirror you want, just look into my eyes
Or a whipping boy, someone to despise
Or a prisoner in the dark
Tied up in chains you just cant see
Or a beast in a gilded cage
Thats all some people ever want to be
If you love somebody, set them free
You can’t control an independent heart
Can’t tear the one you love apart
Forever conditioned to believe that we cant live
We cant live here and be happy with less
So many riches, so many souls
Everything we see we want to possess
If you need somebody, call my name
If you want someone, you can do the same
If you want to keep something precious
You got to lock it up and throw away the key
If you want to hold onto your possession
Dont even think about me
If you love somebody, set them free
Thank you STING… Love, Paul
[Reply]
THELMA Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U_S_ffmc6A&feature=related
Sting, singing.
Oh Paul, I think that Sting is not ‘in love’ .. ;-]
‘Love is EROS without wings’. Lord Byron.
Yes if we love our children, we have to teach them how to .. fly snd .. set them free..
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
[Reply]
Satora Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UppX6vP3c4g
[Reply]
Satora Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEkJoMNFPEA
[Reply]
THELMA Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Thank you Satoraki!!! This is the first time that I have listened to this songs. ‘My only love’ is so romantic and beautiful .. piano playing with his voice and nice paintings..
Eros the winged son of Aphrodite! Τής Κυπριας Αφροδίτης!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Paul from Austria Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 7:42 am
I did dear Thelma… and she’s proven that the words in the lyrics are very true, Love, Paul
[Reply]
Alexandra Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:18 pm
Very nice. Thank you
Love
Alexandra
[Reply]
Catherine Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:40 pm
i used to listen to sting all the time.
yet if you have to let them ‘be free’ then it is saying love has binded one to another a little too strongly…
surely, there is no right to let them go free.. in the first place.
[Reply]
Catherine Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
ie: they were never belonging to another in the first place.
people in love often make this mistake…
[Reply]
Pandora Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 8:33 pm
Good point Catherine.
Sting also wrote: Every Breath you Take, in 1983 on the album “Synchronicity” when he was in the Police, at the time his first wife was divorcing him (he was very upset about it):
“Oh, cant you see
You belong to me
How my poor heart aches
With every breath you take
Oh, cant you see
You belong to me
How my poor heart aches
With every step you take..”
Hmmmm!
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 12:55 am
For Pandora ;o)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DFekWAxip4&feature=related
Heart Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Annie I enjoyed your Sting track too. Thank you. Notice he is waring a PINK turtle neck :)
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Sis I did notice isn’t it funny ? :D
Heart Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
Yes :)) I wonder if Paulo would wear Salmon pink…not as intense as the pink, pink. Most men would never wear turtle neck in 2009! Perhaps back in the 70’s. It looks just right on Sting. and really, I don’t care about what people wear!! I enjoy the many, many different styles.
Paulo Coelho Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 9:53 pm
NEVER. NOT EVEN IF IT WAS A GIFT FROM YOU
Heart Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Laughing out loud. Promise. It will not happen. By the way, may I praise your dressing style Paulo. Most pictures of you are VERY elegant. I like your style. We like EVERYTHING about you ;)
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
SO, sis , pink goes to the blackest of black lists!! :D:D
i thought so!!
TOmorrow , lets see what colour the shirt will be ;o)
mmmm…meditating now, connecting to the shirt guru to tell me the colour ;o) lol
Paulo Coelho Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
the guru says: black or white. One is the absence of colors (white, it reflects all) and the other is the presence of colors (black, it absorbs all ). The guru says that the person in question love limits.
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
:D
‘Thank you guru!’-closing the connection now ;o)
If the person in question didn’t love limits, he wouldn’t surpass the limits and the bow wouldn’t have gone far ;o)
‘Bow is happy’ says the guru!——–and the connection gone now
Heart Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 12:04 am
Limits are good. And so is taste.
Oh, have to tell you both a funny story about inmates in Phoenix, Arizona. The Sheriff got tired of male underwear disappearing from the jail/prison all the time. So, he went ahead and bough tons of PINK, PINK boxer shorts for all the male inmates. This is what they wear since. Needless to say, the problem with missing underwear has been solved :))
Heart Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 1:25 am
Scroll down a bit on this link, and there are the boxers
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2008/06/prison-arizona.html
Paul from Austria Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 7:49 am
I can promise dear Catherine, that real love is free to be where it wants to be… we can’t lock it up in a cage… I have always valued the freedom of others, especially those closest to me…
You are young… don’t let anyone make you a prisoner… of Love, x Paul
[Reply]
THELMA Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Yes I agree that real love is free to be where it wants to be.., dear Paul. In fact we cannot … exercise any power on Her. She overpowers us!! But our … souls aren’t locked up in cage?? Our material bodies??
We value the freedom of others and ours too, but if a relationship makes us feel ‘prisoners’ then we are, for sure, in the wrong .. place! ;-] And there are so many … frogs in the hot water, as Paulo Coelho, says.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 5:48 pm
Even if someones locks it up in a cage, someone like you will find the key and open the door ;o)..
Catherine Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
you can see paul i felt that also.
especially after having a boyfriend who made me feel guilty for leaving him.. wanting my ‘freedom’ back. he was a bit dominating over my character.. and i didnt like that.
ironically… his song for me was the sting.. every breath you take, ill be watching you…
mwhahahahaaa x ;o)
rosa de los vientos Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Me gusta mucho. Gracias Pablo
[Reply]
“the Universe was created by the devil, all this apparent beauty is a diabolic work.”
Dear Paulo,
Not all the Cathars believe that the devil created the Universe. It seems there are 4 sorts of Cathars. And some of them believe that they can’t be any bad in or from God: they are the absolute Cathars.
I’m maybe one of them, though I never really interested so much myself in. For me: Almighty is not God, as God is just a celestial between others. Almighty is “above”, as a father/mother.
But I can feel that during 200 years catharism have been changed a lot and diverging opinions, as well geographic situation led to different rules of living.
Nowadays, some people assemble them to the arya doctrine. Maybe for true… A doctrine that has been buried as its main symbol, by the catholic church and then because of the nazi’s research.
CathARism was probably born from the European crusades to Orient. Indeed, in this time, educated people discovered another story of the original creation, thanks to relics, parchments, and objects coming from pillages in Egypt.
Aryas, “-and not aryans-”, were the children of Is-Râ-El people, that were not white as Himm/tlerism imposed so, but crystal made. Maybe those lightning Beings, we read here and there about in Ancient Books. They taught to Nagas that taught to Indian and Ethipian people; the latter as ancestors of Egyptians.
We know all this from the Turin’s Papyrus and Altar both, though the catholic church never talk about those races, we should better translate as “rays”; that were giants.
Cathars practised the imposition of hands. I discovered that thanks to your text. I’m obliged. It then carried my thoughts along to an Egyptian drawing representating Anubis that puts his hands on Osiris.
For them that practise helped the soul to brave death. Not only baptism.
For me, people on Earth are not prepared for the big travel. And each time one group discovered the original Truth, or just a part of them, to apply it in everyday’s life, they have been destroyed by the fire, and then by epimedies.
I’m afraid that a handful persons keep this secretly.
Though Truth is never long unseen for the one that seeks.
Many thanks.
[Reply]
Catherine Martinez Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 6:09 am
Dear Paulo: could you erase that post? Thank you. I don’t know why it appeared here. I did put it in the right place. But it seems the blog need to jump a bit now.
Thanks.
Lovely day.
[Reply]
rosa de los vientos Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 4:06 pm
I like very much yours thougyh
[Reply]
Catherine martinez Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
It’s so kind of you. Have a delightful week dear Rosa de los vientos. (Beautiful name) <3
i love some one else and get marry with some one else.
my husband xpress his love for me but i didnt feel the sme thing for him is it normal,shuld ichng my self with the time n try to forget the person whom i love so much as i feel that i will die if dparted from him,
one thing which make me surprized that i thought that i will die but i m still alive.then my love was fake?iwant to solve this mistry
[Reply]
we are one….
[Reply]
Remember the best relationship is the one in which your love for each other exceeds your needs for each other.
Dalai Lama
Love Agape and Liberty to you all friends!
Jojo
[Reply]
i’m a married man who’s lost his hear to another woman
[Reply]
heart Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 7:26 pm
heartttttt and may i add soul
[Reply]
Alexandra Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
Mamma mia!!!
Nothing new under the sun.
[Reply]
THELMA Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 8:20 am
Karma or destiny, dear heart [male]!!
The Scales say: Follow your heart/live the lie/will you be happy with her?/will you be happy losing your wife?/is it for ..sex?/is it .. Ego/is it admiration?/how long do you think it will last?? and then ..you will lose your heart again for .. somebody else and hurt her too?
You see there are so many questions and possibilities and the ‘dialogue’ inside your head may continue indefinitely. ;-]
You may follow your instincts, heart .., but remember, never lose your dignity and self-respect. ‘Que sera sera!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
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heart Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
I need my wife’s money so I left the love
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THELMA Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 9:04 pm
So Eros has lost the .. battle just for … your wife’s money?
Why didm’t you work harder and stop being ‘dependent’ on her money and set yourself Free ??
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Alexandra Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 7:54 am
Thats very bad. Pardon me, but I cant stand the fake people, mostly those who pretend to love and instead the want money or wealth! I hate them!!!Now you made me angry. You…I would tell you some words.
Yes, including our own selves.
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Marie Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
I absolutely agree with what you say. For respect the others, it’s necessary to respect first of all oneself.
I think that love allows not to get lost. It’s important to live the dreams which are ourselves.
For the marriage, I pointed this out : we are enticed by a person and as soon as we decide to live together, we cross a lot of energy to want to make change this person. It’s strange because it’s really his personality who enticed us at first ! For me, sincere dialogue and respect for other one are foundations so that each can bloom. Like itself and that each is its own breathing.
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Maybe we make sweeter the athmosphere with that song. Is fit for the topic?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foXy8gVKgog
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Catherine Martinez Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 4:00 am
:D Thank you Alexandra. Distilled through cinema, music…
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Alexandra Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
Lol. Today I found a wonderful song video, Woodpecker song by Wil.
Lovely
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In marriage two people do give themselves to each other, and own each other to some extent, not as an object that can be left on the mantelpiece, but person to person, with commitments and responsibilities to each other. Separated, two people who love each other, will feel a great loss, and only wait for once again to be reunited.
Marriage is a wonderful institution, provided you like to live in an institution, said Grouncho Marx. Marriages supposedly are made in heaven. With a divorce rate of more than half of all marriages, the reality is, marriages are like a living hell. We wish to live happily ever after, but is it pure fantasy? Perhaps the fact partners see themselves as a thing they own, marriages ends up with hatred and being unfaithful to each other. So we try different arrangements; Open marriage. Conventional marriage. Living together without getting married. Bisexual marriages. Homosexual marriages. Celibate Marriages. A married couple who hate each other might want to figure out some solutions before one of them kill the other!
The strange thing is; Most murders of husbands or wives take place when one of them wants to leave the other. If I cannot own him/her, nobody else will have him/her either. Living such a agony together, one would think it would be a relief for both to split. Nope, this is not how it works. The minute one wants to leave, then lets destroy that person, because he/she is not mine anymore.
‘No one can loose anyone, because no one owns anyone’ is an ideal statement for two extraordinary free souls, with little reference to the real world. Myself, I have never managed not to feel a loss when separating from loved ones, so must mean I believe I own them in my heart.
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Daniel Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 5:27 am
I’ve always thought it was my head that loved like that, I think my heart knows better.
I also think there is a good argument for avoiding traditional marriage because it is an ancient contract that is steeped in traditions of ownership. When you enter the contract I believe it carries with it centuries of obligation whether you realise it or not. The words “til death do us part” are not to be taken lightly, and simply signing a divorce paper does not free you from them entirely either. If I get married again it will be for “as long as love lasts”.
Would a bird love you less if you set it free from a cage? And once it is gone, would you miss the music in your head or your heart?
With love, Daniel
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aditya Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
” If I get married, it will be for as “as long as love lasts” and i will make it last, my love”
head and heart heh heh he ! there is no head without a heart and their is no heart without a head they come in pairs.
love
aditya
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Daniel Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
Excellent point aditya! Thank you!
Savita Vega Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
That is a very nice way of putting it, I think, because in this way, you are taking the responsibility on yourself “to make love last” - to do whatever it takes to get through whatever hardships may arise. Some people seem to just get married and they think that is it - like that contract, that piece of paper is supposed to be enough to keep them together from then on. They don’t want to put forth any real work or effort on their part to continue to keep that flame of love alive and their relationship healthy. Then they become miserable because the ARE married - bound “until death do them part” - but their heart really isn’t in it anymore. Then the marriage becomes a curse, rather than a blessing. I like your way of approaching it, Aditya. It seems like a very healthy and sane view of what marriage is really supposed to be all about - genuine and wholehearted commitment.
Johanne Mercille Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Happy that you have that power Aditya! But what happens if the one you love follows suddenly another path … there again, all to say that we cannot go sometimes against our destiny :-) Sincerely, that is a “noble” thing but again, I had all that intent when I married the first time and things occurred and I saw the light, whereas when I first engaged was in the dark … With affection, Jojo.
Pandora Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
I have lost my mind.
I don’t know
In what it is lost,
Or why it is in such Bliss.
There is no use
Hiding my madness anymore;
I have lost all sense
Of time and space.
In Bliss this mind dances;
Its bells ring night and day.
Magical is this incredible state.
Where is the sea?
Where is the river?
If you want to know
The Wave of Bliss,
Unite the eye with the heart.
If you want to see
So many colours, O mind,
See with the heart’s eye.
(From the Path of the Mystic Lover)
aditya Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Hi Jojo,
no point reveissiting history unless we want to draw some fresh conclusions, specially the painful ones. U did what u did at a ceratin point in time, something happned, u did your best, nothing else matters. about power, don’t know jojo, i have been put through fire, but what will happen tomorrow who knows.
love
aditya
Lavanya Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 9:23 pm
Good point!
Theresa Goubran-Keshta Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
Refreshing idea..! May it be mutual..!
Heart Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Hi Daniel.
Yes, ‘for as long as love last’ is the point here. My experience is there are different types of love, and when the infatuation is over (as it will in any couples I have known) often another type of love starts to evolve. A problem with quitting when you don’t feel the intense sexual attraction anymore, is, you will keep repeating and repeating bad marriages, without never developing to a new level of love. When couples meet the wall, often it’s because of issues from the childhood, we need to work through, or we won’t get very far. However, I couldn’t live with hate each single day, as we can see in some couples, hate, hate and only hate. It has to be more positive than negative for me to stay.
Love and Admiration,
heart
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Alexandra Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:53 am
Ohhh, dont tell me. Nowadays in tv each day, I mean each day, I see a man, lover, husband, or father killing a woman, girl, for his idea that better she die than doing what she desire in here life. That does not help me in risking to be freely with a man, maybe is a part of the decision to be still not married. Yesterday the latest, in Italian news, a father of an muslim 18 girl killed him just because she wanted to be with her Italian Catholic friend. He tried to deffend her but get injured by father knife. The mother of the girl said soon after” was here fault, for she did not listen to the family…And she forgive tha husband , to grow up her kids with him”. Only that she did not thought maybe the murderer will never come out from jail. Only her best friend said she did not deserved such.
All this happened in Italy, not in Marocco. Still, people are not free even nowadays.
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Heart Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Alexandra, you got it. There is no more dangerous place than in a marriage! As a matter of fact, not long ago I saw a reportage about more than hundred women in Romania in one village killing their husbands with arsenic they scraped of fly paper, you know paper one puts up to attract and kill the flies. I’m sure you already know this story better than me. It was very interesting to hear the remaining villagers talk and give their view on these murders. Apparently it was a mid wife who came up with the idea, and who helped a lot of the women. The main reason for killing their husbands were, ‘they were good for nothing, they were just in the way’. The women were oppressed. The men didn’t allow them to go dancing so on. But there were no obvious reason, they just killed them because they didn’t need them for anything. As I understood these killings took place all over Romania. Did you hear about this, I believe it happened in the beginning of our century?
Yes, and as you say,cultural differences when fathers rather kill his daughter than allow her to ‘change side’. Also, I believe for instance in Brazil, if a woman is unfaithful, her husband can kill her, without any criminal charges against him!
Love and Admiration,
Heart
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Alexandra Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 8:56 am
Ohh, I live in Romania, but never heard about that. Ohhhhhh
I dont understand if things go so bad, why one not just go away from the bad marriage? Why need murder?
Not really, is more men kill women, the women for tradition obbey to men. Well, my mom all her life gave her income to my father. He treat her bad, was a alcholol addict, beat us a lot, talk bad, but she run to please him in a second…I dont understand her.
Many things seen from far away might look in a different way.
Love
Alexandra
Heart Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
It happened in the beginning of our century. I’m sure we could look it up online. Yes, in my home too, my dad had alcohol problems and we all went on our tip toes to please him. I often think we would please him, because we were scared of his bad temper. And you are right looking back at it, I focus on all the positive my dad gave us, like his positive attitude and humor.
But we live to improve life, improve the condition for women and children and for humanity, and that means we have to take a look at what went wrong, then shake it up, and try to find a better way.
Love and Admiration,
Heart
Heart Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
Alexandra dear,
This is a link to the program I watched;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Angel_Makers_of_Nagyr%C3%A9
Alexandra Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 7:59 am
Heart dear, there is written Hungarian society….Is not Romania. Is true it is a neighbouring country. Ohhhhhhhh
Never mind. I saw soon even the name of the location was a Hungarian name, because I know their letters, that we not use.
Heart Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
Yes Alexandra, I noticed when I found the link I had mixed the two countries. The story is pretty shocking anyhow. As you said, we have this image that it is men murdering women. This is a proof it goes both ways. By the way, instead of poisoning my husband with flypaper, I’d take the fly swatter and swat him out of the house! :)
Alexandra Reply:
September 21st, 2009 at 9:08 am
Very funny your idea….And really shocking the story, for is true one…The men better watch their behaviour,lol….
Love
Alexandra
aditya Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Alexandra,,
what makes to TVs is not what is right, but what makes to TV is what is execptional, saleble. so don’t base your life views on TV, see them, but don’t take everything on face value. everything in life is dangerous, life itself is dangerouus, dead people face no dangers. finally, remember only one thing, this whole place is like a very big practicle university, designed to tecah you things, which can faciliate your learning about love, the path to god. keep that in mind as u navigate through life, like those two oil drops and palace tour. growth happnes if we are open, not in a hurry to conclude.
love
adtya
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aditya Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 1:52 pm
Alexandra,
TV is called an ‘idiot box’ for some reasons, it is not idiot but can lead one in that direction depending upon how we use it, as with any techlonoly.
love
aditya
Alexandra Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Indeed, I watch not much tv. idiot box.lol
I think a brain washing machine…I dont take it , dear Aditya, I just tell you that in my real life I encountered so many very nice men, who in the very minute they ” imagine” to have a right on me started to be violent verbally and physically. Is sad. For sure one will live with a insecurity for a while.
Love
Alexandra
Annie Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
‘the radios agree with all the tvs and the tvs agree with all the magazines’…so I guess ‘brain washing’ everywhere…
aditya Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 8:20 am
HI heart !
modern man ( and woman too, increasingly becomming like men ) has become too materailistic, success at any cost, money by any means is increasingly becomming the motto, what is in it for me is the basic criteria. we want our friends, relatives to behave as we want them to, hardly ever examining what i want is right or not.
marriages and divorce are living hell mostly now a days, the spirit of accomodation, tolerance, sacrifice, of adjusting needs of others etc are becomming passe, hence this sad situation.
solutions are there, but who wants them, afterall it’s only one life we have and let us ‘enjoy’ everything we can is our way of life.
owenership is of two kinds one is of power where i have power over someone to tell him her what to do and how to do, second kind of ownership is that of responsiblity, where we go that extra mile to take care of the persons / things we own. i guess by saying that u own them in your heart, i am sure u have that responsibility angle in mind more prominently than the power angle.
love
aditya
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Alexandra Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
The best reply and example is the frame story in the novel” Eleven minutes” by Paulo Coelho, where we see the example of a bird taken in a cage( a metaphor). The end is pretty bad, the idea of owning, having the thing, being, at our disposal made lose interest… The bird died, left alone. That indeed a bad end for the love story, sorry if I dont tell the story at the best, one can find it in the novel…
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Laxmi Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
Dear Aditya,
Can you explain what you mean by : “women increasingly becoming like men” ? Are we not all : humans?
You are right , there are solutions for keep a marriage going like sacrifice, tolerance and adjusting etc….women had been using this solution for centuries hoping that the sacrifice etc would change the world and stop abuse from continuing from generation to generations. but that hasn’t happenned , hence the change in women’s tolerance and high divorce rate.
The other problem in marriage, one person want to own the other but does not want to be owned.
A husband says ‘ i want to be free and come home everyday at 12 midnight and you should not question me where i went what i did. Just trust me ‘ But if you tell the person so i am also free to go out and come back at 12pm and not tell you anything and will trust me? What do u think will happen - hell will break loose.
I heard a story about a old age home in India (paid) where a woman come to get a place and her husband had just signed up there the previous day for himself.The folks there told her that her husband already had a room and she need not pay full again…but she refused and asked for a separate room and told them she can’t live that close to him anymore..this couple had been married for decades (40 yrs) and raised many kids. I ‘m not talking about a ‘modern woman’ here.. but a woman who living the traditional indian woman role to the end of her life and said i can’t do it anymore!!!!
Unless tolerance, understanding and adjusting is mutual practised - no other solutuon will work long term.
love, Laxmi
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aditya Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
Hi laxami !
yes we are humans, but god/nature whatvere made us distinct, diffrent. we are humans, but equlally proudly we are men and women too. we both have our + and -, bothe are needed for the ’show’ to go on. we should accept ourselvs as we are, not some supposed equality stuff. women and men are not same, they ‘think’ diffrently, exepting the other which happnes to be from other sex to bahave as we want them to, is wrong. we can convince, cajole, ….. even have a controlled fight if need be, but we cannnot say that the other sex is wrong. there are many reasons.
yes that story must be true, by the way reminds me to book a old age home for myself too, a classy place, do u know any such place, solitude is desirable in old age. solitude but someone to take care also. but we don’t know why they wish to stay in same old age home, but in diffrent rooms. u can see only the ‘hate’ part ( which is necessary wear and tear of any relationship, unless both are wols ) can u see the love part too, she wants to be close to the chap with whom she spent 40 years, just in case some emergencies arise. laxami jee to convince others, being aggressive does not work now a days.
love
aditya
Heart Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Yes Aditya, You are right part of the problem probably is the materialism, because we don’t take time to enjoy life when all we want is working more to get more possessions, and the change in the women role, from taking care of the home, to working full time.
From a psychological standpoint the main problem in couples seems to be hurts we carry with us from childhood. I’m not a psychologist, but studying this, they estimate only 5% of people grow up being taken properly care of with LTC, Love Tender Care. Only 5%!! The rest of us have big hurts for CRYING for food, change of diapers, being loved and stimulated. So, what do we do as adults. A lot of us apparently has unconscious wish to be infants again, and that our partner take care of us like our parents should have. And because as there are no perfect parents there are no perfect partners, and until we realize this and stop blaming our partners for this ‘failure’, we will not come close to solve this problem.
I do not think the solution is to go back in time, and send the women back to their total submissive roles under abusive husbands. I think the solution is to WORK LESS and PLAY more. Women have become independent to enjoy as much freedom as men, but as Paulo also writes in the Zahir, there is a freedom where we choose commitments!
Love and Admiration young wise man!
Heart
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aditya Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
Hi heart !
did i tell u that i love you, for being so nice to me. i hope your husband does not come looking for me witha double barrel gun, who knows he may choose to stay on, ha ha.
jokes apart, yes indeed we should work less and play more, choose some commitements which no one forces us to, which we choose out of our freedom, like being a wol, like shariing with complete strangers, who appear familiar somehow. why did u say that solution is not going back in time, i never sugegsted such a thing. the solution i had in mind is very modern, very discreet and very ’sexy’ too, and it targets the problem at a deeper level, all these, isolation, divorces, intolerance, mad rush for one upmanship, confusion, speed, overconsumption, etec etc, are merely manifestations of a deeper cause. it’s like maladies are many but cure is one, type of solution. more about it later.
love
aditya
PS : Durga Pooja is on and i am feeling submerged, u know like when u swim and just lie down in water face in, just float. a light feeling. in my reply to laxami i needed to make a correction ( of course there are other mistakes too, but they may not cause confusion ) i have written in fifth line exepting, it should have been ‘expecting’.
Heart Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
Aditya!
I love you too and find you are always nice too. You are so sincere with your opinions, and so often I agree with you. I love your playful way of writing, as when you said ‘the show must go on in a couple’, you always bring a smile on my face, for your light hearted way of expressing yourself. Hehe, my husband..sometimes he is a bit annoyed about my engagement in this blog, then I always remind him of times he spend on his computer, when I would have liked him to spend time with me, and then he shut up :)
‘Sexy’ solution is what we need! Tell me about it. Why I don’t want to go back in time, is I find the abuse has to stop, and the only way is when women make their own money. In my experience this is the only way I get respect!
I did read about Durga Pooja online :) the Goddess, so beautiful…you bring food offerings…you have time off, you float and have a light feeling…festivals they are good for us. Durga Pooja bless you, Aksh, Abhuday and your wife!!!
Love,
Heart
Alexandra Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 8:59 am
He he he, well, at times seeing even a man sweeter, available, obedient might be nice, why not admit it? So if that sweet being need a certain behaviour, I think you know what I mean… But I thought look in the Middle Ages, to hair of men, long, the attire, with many embroideries, so is not a nowadays story at all.
Love
Alexandra
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Savita Vega Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Another somewhat similar situation which sometimes incites murder: the government’s absolute insistence upon the payment of child-support. Many statistics show that there is a rising number of cases in this country in which men, fed up with paying child-support, murder either the mother or the child, or both. These dead-beat father’s would rather murder their own children or the child’s mom, than pay to support the child. I’m not saying that men should not be expected to pay child support, but the authorities (social workers and such) whose job it is to enforce the payment of child support should be trained to recognize cases where the enforcement of this law actually puts the mother and/or the child in grave physical danger.
In the case of my daughter, I do not receive child support nor do I allow the authorities to enforce the payment of it for precisely this reason. As a result, the government holds me as liable and actually “guilty” of withholding from my daughter what she should rightfully receive. No doubt, she should rightfully receive these payments, but I refuse to risk my life or hers in order to obtain some small pittance per month. Our safety and sense of peace is worth far more than that.
Crazy - how people react sometimes when they cannot have things their way.
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aditya Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 1:42 pm
best of intentions - authorities intervened in between two individuals, child support should be actually a mututal consent thing, i mean if someone cannnot pay or does not want to pay, why force. see now the offshoot is that people are becomming more devious to avoid paying.
on another note Savita u are best teh judge in this case, whether or not your ex husband can fall so low, only you may know; just because some lusy chap did it somewhere, does not mean every person will be like that.
love
aditya
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Heart Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Savita, very true. Even before the child is born, often you see women battered and murdered by their boyfriends/husbands when they get the news of expecting a child.
The law is clear, every child has a right of support from his/her biological mom/dad. Often claiming child support at least will secure some contact between the father and the child, with visitation rights so on. I have seen what you talk about at close hand. Many women avoid starting to prosecute the men, because they are afraid. We refer women to support groups for victims of domestic violence, and they get help how to do this in a safe way. If you demand a DNA test, the man HAS to do it, and pay for it. You can issue restraining orders against the man, and there are many ways a woman can protect herself, and still get the money the CHILD HAS A LAWFUL RIGHT to receive. If you still, as a mother don’t want to go ahead, because in your heart you are so scared and convinced this maniac of a dad will hurt you or your child, there is even the possibility of waiting for as long as you like.
We had a case, where the child sued her father for back payment of child support for all those years, because her mother refused to do so, and the child was granted these money. So don’t think it will ever be to late to claim what is a child’s right. In your case Savita, our government should show much more consideration and trust your judgment…The best way as I mentioned would be if you have groups working to support domestic violence victims, they often are very smart how to go about these issues.
Single mothers have the worst financial situation in most cases, but it’s better to live poor than being killed, so find the right timing of getting that irresponsible ‘prick’!!! I had a case where a man had children with eight women he didn’t pay support for. When he got convicted in ‘my’ case, she was awarded $50 a month, because he worked as a pimp and drug pusher and none of his income was in the books, so he found away to avoid sharing. Another case I had, a lady wanting to sue her dad for back payment, this man left the state and changed identity to escape to pay!! So, yes these men do A LOT to avoid taking the responsibility they were supposed to have.
Love and Admiration,
Heart
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Savita Vega Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Thanks for that information, Heart. I will DEFINITELY keep all of that in mind. Considering that we now live over 1,000 away from him and in a place so remote that my address can’t even be located on google maps, I do feel a lot safer. I also have three huge and potentially vicious dogs and this enables me to sleep at night without worrying if the doors are bolted. (Before the dogs, I had alarms on every door.)
It is nice to know that there is a way of addressing this - of getting what is rightfully hers - by utilizing the authorities. Unfortunately, in the several times that I have been asked by social workers to give them his information - name, last known address, etc. - so that they could pursue him for child support, the social workers that I encountered didn’t seem very understanding of my refusal to give this information. Even when I tried to explain the reasons why I consider him dangerous (and very good reasons, at that), they weren’t interested in hearing what I had to say. They were more interested in pointing out to me the wrong I was doing in keeping my daughter from receiving what is rightfully hers. No one ever mentioned or referred me to any sort of support group. In fact, they acted more like they thought I was lying altogether - like maybe he was living with us or something and I was claiming that he was absent only in order to receive support from the government.
Anyway, now that I know all of this which you have explained, next time I will approach the matter differently. I’ll try to offer an exchange: “I’ll give you the information you need to track him down, if you will offer me some sort of support to secure our safety.” I know 1,000 miles sounds like an ample safety cushion in itself, but I also know how maniacal this man can be when he is “forced” into doing anything that is against his will. When I was pregnant and refused to have the abortion he demanded, he once threatened me by grabbing me by the throat and saying, “I WILL KILL any woman who has MY CHILD without MY permission!” Then, a bit later, he threatened to kidnap her and give her to his sister to raise if ever I tried to make him pay. He said, “If I ever have to pay one dollar in child support, you will never see that child again!” In part, I realize that all is this is due, somewhat, to extreme cultural differences. He is Cuban and in his mind he really thinks that he had the right to demand I have an abortion and that I had no right to defy him on that. But, aside from that, I also know that he served time in a Cuban prison (for murder), so I don’t take his threats lightly.
At any rate, as you suggest, there must be some way - by utilizing the proper authorities and resources - some way to “catch a tiger by the tail” and win. I don’t think I could do this, however, if I thought this would mean he would get visitation rights. My daughter quite openly expresses the fact that she “hates” her father, even though I have never shared any of this information with her, nor have I ever said anything negative about him in front of her. All I ever said was that he was “too scared of being a father - afraid that he wouldn’t be able to do it - so he ran away.” She hates him for that, for being a coward, and I really think she’d sooner claw his eyes out than spend an hour in his presence.
Anyway, I really want to thank you so much for sharing all of this information with me, Heart. I am going to keep thinking on it for now, and if the time comes when I feel that it is the right time to take action, I will do so, but also insisting that the authorities give me the support that I need to maintain our safety.
Things are indeed so different from what they were a hundred, even fifty years ago. In the region where I live, if this had occurred even in the 1950’s, the men of the community would have gone out and caught him and strung him up by his heels from a tree, then beat the living daylights out of him, tarred and feathered him, and left him for dead. Then, if he survived, they would have met him every Friday when he got his paycheck and taken the money from him for the support of his child. And, if he ever did harm one of us in any way, they would have hung him from that same tree, this time by the neck. I’m not saying things were necessarily “better” back then (because, goodness knows, as a single mother I would have been an outcast, and my daughter too), but at least people had a firm sense of justice which they were intent upon imposing, without all the red tape and loop-holes.
With Much Love,
Savita
Heart Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 9:40 pm
Oh MY GOODNESS SAVITA! Geezzzzz. Poor you. What a STRUGGLE you have been going through and still have on your mind. Listen, what I have seen of these women who does go through with giving the Social Security Number of the fathers of their children, and pursuing them legally, is it is VERY HARD to in fact get much financial support that way. So, in the case with the pimp who was convicted to pay $50 a month, my client actually decided to waive her right on this amount, to get the right of waiving this father ANY RIGHTS to his daughter at all. Legally, he can never claim visitation or anything, because he screwed up so badly. Instead, this lady met another wonderful man who has adopted this little girl as his own.
In your case, do you know what, the information you give me, myself… I would RUN hehe. It’s not worth the risks of having anything to do with this man. You will manage one way or the other to survive financially too, which is much better than being murdered. And, yes this man, your CUBAN :))) he sounds like he has SERIOUS mental issues, and if you look at the prison system, he probably wouldn’t be helped with his issues, if you managed to get him locked up. However, if you don’t do anything, he probably will continue to commit crimes and ruin life for a lot of other women and children (remember I told you this man who has 8 children he doesn’t pay for or take any responsibility as a father). So, to think the government will protect you. Yes, shelters for battered women do, set women up with new identities if necessary, but it must be a HARD way to go, beginning all over, with nobody you know. But women do it all the time.
As for your daughter. I do admire you SO much for how nice you are to the Cuban, not to tell your daughter, what a bad man he is. I think I agree with you. Let her find out for herself when she is grown enough. At some time though you probably need to explain to her everything you do all the time to PROTECT her from him, what price you pay?
Savita I just read this excellent book about the psyche of murderers; ‘Our Wish to Kill. The Murder in All Our Hearts’ by Dr Herbert Strean and Lucy Freeman. Read it! It’s brilliant for getting to understand the mental development, and what to do dealing with issues like this. You can probably get it in the library. Yes, I agree hanging was an easy solution to get rid of criminals. However, in this book I’m referring to, they said something like in a couple of decades 100 people were killed on death row by a mistake in the USA. And I’m just thinking how many got hanged over the centuries, when they were innocent!!! We cannot solve the problem with murderers by murdering them!!!
Savita, I’m so glad you are safe and have your dogs, and even if you don’t like your dad too well, you are able to see positive things about him, and have a place to stay, till things will get better. Thank you again for sharing yourself with us here…and I am glad if my info can be of any support. I just had on my mind to search Ivan Petrella and learn more about his thinking. Thank YOU for sharing this with ME.
lOVE you bunches,
Heart
Heart Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Savita,
You can legally be granted ‘Termination of fatherhood’ which would mean he would have no rights to visitation or any contact with your daughter, but I believe also you couldn’t then ever go after him for back payment.
Best of luck with this.
Heart
Whne married, in the eyes of God this is not true. In the world of man this is is how it is.
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No one can own any one, because we meant to be for god not for us.
because we’re just messengers all of us have a message to tell and when it’s done we just leave everything behind.
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Buen dia con todos:
Creo que esa frase nos permite reconocer y aceptar que debemos dejar ir a las personas que mas amamos.
Porque finalmente lo que queda con nosotros es la energia del amor que nos inspiro y eso no lo perdemos.
Un abrazo
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Here says click for text or video reply. I did not notice. Is new?
How can we? I never saw here the videos replies.??????
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When we think of it this way, it changes everything.
For instance, one thing that has always perplexed me is how people tend to behave when their lover or their spouse has a fling. By “fling” I mean a fleeting affair, one in which the lover or spouse does not leave with the “other” woman or man, but actually wants to continue with the original relationship. Even if their lover or spouse still declares that they love them and want to be with them, they act as though something has been stolen from them, as though the “other” is a thief who has come and robbed them of what was rightfully theirs. But the thing I like to ask is: What exactly has this supposed thief taken? Did your wife return from this other man’s bed missing an arm or a leg? Is half of her gone just because she spent an hour in someone else’s arms? Did your boyfriend return home without his penis just because he slept with another woman? WHAT EXACTLY has been “stolen” in such a case? If your partner’s heart is still in the relationship, then nothing - absolutely nothing - has been stolen from you. In fact, this incident might even enhance your relationship in some way that you can’t even quite understand.
I know that this is probably not a very popular view to take, but I cannot help but ask such questions when people become so angry, so thoroughly insulted over such affairs in which their partner does not even want to leave them for this other person. Their relationship is still intact, and could remain intact, perfectly unharmed, if only they could refrain from flying into a dramatic rage over the thought that something has been stolen which “belongs to” them.
And if the lover or the spouse does leave to be with this other person…? Well, I like to think of people as rivers. You can step into a river to frolic in its waters, you can enjoy its current, but you cannot stop it from flowing where it will. If you do stop it - I mean really stop it - then it isn’t a river at all anymore, but a pond or a lake. And that isn’t the same thing at all. I have no interest in swimming in ponds and lakes because they give me the creeps. All sorts of scary creatures live and thrive in still waters. I’d rather take my chances with a river, even a raging river - let it flow, admire the nobility of its savage waters, its steadfast determination to arrive at its destination even if it has to take down mountains to get there. Yes, let it flow, and one day if it isn’t there anymore - if it takes its course elsewhere, out of my reach - at least I can say that I have known a river and not just a mud puddle.
I just don’t think we can ever “own” another person in the way that our society leads us to believe we can. I don’t think we should even try.
With Love,
Savita
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Pandora Reply:
September 17th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
Dear Savita
If a person just wants to have a fling, with every tom, dick or harry then to me they are just working out their sexual appetite, their lower senses, there is a beautiful poem by Ibn Arabi:
The divine lover is spirit without body
The physical lover is body without spirit
The spiritual lover possesses both spirit and body
I think if you have a relationship that is based on more than just physical desire, then you can lose faith, lose trust and lose your love.
With love
Pandora
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THELMA Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 7:27 am
My beautiful Pandora, you with Ibn Arabi’s poem, have said everything in three lines.. Thank you.
My ideal : THE Spiritual Lover possesses both SPIRIT and BODY !
We are Spirits living in bodies. He, who would ‘possess’ my spirit would be the … Eternal Lover and this love is not ‘prison’ but Paradise on Earth.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
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Savita Vega Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
It does have to be with EVERY “tom, dick or harry” that comes along. The point is that most married people, according to statistics, do have at least one, if not more, of these “flings” at some point during their married lives. When we pretend that this isn’t the case - that the majority of people are actually fully and completely monogamous - we are but only fooling ourselves into believing some fairytale. I’m not talking about fairytale marriages - I’m talking about dealing with reality in such a way that the marriage can actually survive and continue unharmed.
Of course, if one prefers they can be an ostrich - stick their head in the sand and pretend that this doesn’t happen or isn’t happening - until one day their spouse gets tired of being married to an ostrich.
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Pandora Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Dear Savita
I don’t understand your response, or your point. Unfaithfulness is different to agreeing to living in an open marriage.
It is down to the couple concerned (or how ever many want to be involved in their relationship).
Turning a blind eye to indiscretions, is another form of permission, two ostrichs deserve each other.
Love
Pandora
Pandora
Christine Reply:
September 17th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Trust is the thing that is stolen. An affair robs the noncheating partner of trust.
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heart Reply:
September 17th, 2009 at 6:33 pm
the problem is when the heart is not there anymore
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THELMA Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
You are not … Heart!!??
So you have put your … heart in your name and lost it!!
I am joking.
Whose heart is not there? Have you lost it in Eros’s battle?
Are you ‘in love’ with a heartless creature??
Remember: DUM SPIRO SPERO!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
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Heart Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
Hi Heart! Nice to meet another heart :)
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silvia Reply:
September 17th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
muy bueno tu pesamiento josefina y conside que pienso igual que vos y me lo e preguntado muchas veses y se lo pregunte a mi esposo ,pero como el hay muchos! y no toda la sociedad pero la mayoria mas # 1 piensan diferente que nosotras ,Considero que nadie en dueno de nadia .y nadie te puede robar lo que no quieras entregar ,es como vos dijiste uno sigue el cause de un buen rio .y vivimos un dia mas ,si cremos en DIOS tarde o temprano vamos a tener que rendir cunta ,solo el tiene el derecho ,nadie mas !!!!suerte
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Nancy Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 4:40 am
I think the only time a relationship with three people is possible is if all 3 lived under the same roof or get together to talk about the relationship. Two people and a long affair means someone is getting hurt. Maybe the partner/spouse or the third person. The third person who falls in love is always hoping that the lover will pick him or her. So even if the original relationship is strong what about the feelings of the other person? Why prevent someone from finding love by keeping them in a physical relationship.
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Catherine Reply:
September 20th, 2009 at 11:47 pm
Have you ever heard of the story [true historical] of the Duchess of Devon’s life experinence?
well… the recent film The Duchess illuminated the tangled web of an infamous trio scenario in the 18th century.
i can’t quite imagine anything similar occuring ‘today’… but then reality can be strange at times.
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Daniel Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 5:37 am
I think having an affair is a way of looking to distance yourself from someone emotionally so you can feel “safe” when you let go. The process of grief passes more quickly too I think, because a lot of the emotion has been dealt with. But pity the person you are having the “fling” with, because they are probably mopping it all up for you, and the person you are leaving because they may not have been given the opportunity to detach themselves in the same way.
My father had affairs because he didn’t feel loved in the way he wanted. If he didn’t feel loved then to this I say “a coward does it with a kiss, the brave man with a sword”.
With love, Daniel
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Johanne Mercille Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Just to go with the flow here, and not intented personally to comment your comment dear Daniel, I put myself in here. For me, I view it also this way. I think that having an affair pertains in some cases to being attracted to parts of oneself that we have difficulty being with or long for. For example (taken from my experience and another person’s experience), in a relation all is there, mostly affective security, a structure, etc … but then spontaneity, pleasure get lost in the day to day basis because of x, y and z reason. Then, a person comes and suddenly the spontaneity, liberty, pleasure get awaken because that is what the other person is funny, not responsible in moments, not afraid, etc … attraction … projection … and then you find out that well it is not more or less the other side, that you need both … that you need to unite parts of yourself that you projected on others … so, today, before going the other side, or when I feel attraction, I try to observe if there is something of me over there that the other owns that I do not own and have to recuperate to become a whole. Cordially, Jojo.
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Laxmi Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
Dear Savita,
I was suprised to read this post from you. As Christine put it: Trust is stolen.
Well if the person who had the fling had said:
‘Look . I not going to be physcially or emotionally faithful to you. I might meet someone and want to be with them for one hour and will come back to you (maybe not lose my penis but gain something like a veneral disease, which i would gladly share with you). I want to spend the rest of the life with you because of x reasons - one being my heart is with you and you are my soulmate. is this Ok with you?’
And the spouse said ‘ yes. That’s ok with me. by the way i might also do the same. is that ok with you?’
and the person says ‘ Yes’
Then ..only then is nothing lost.
Please do not under-estimate the loss of trust..it’s the foundation of love and respect and most important of all : Integrity to one’s own soul.
if you really love someone enough to want to spend the rest of your life with them why not have a ‘fling’ with them itself.
love,
Laxmi
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Savita Vega Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:43 pm
No one can “steal” trust from you. The point is what are you “trusting” this person to do? If I am with someone, I trust them to be true not to a written contract or a ring, but to themselves. If I were with someone is a committed relationship, I would trust them to do one of two things: If the fling were truly insignificant, to be sure that I or any of our mutual friends never found out about it, OR, if it were significant (in other words, if they were falling in love with this other person) to be sure that they did inform me immediately, so I would have the option of acting on this information. I really think, if I were in a lifelong relationship and I trusted the other person never ever to have any emotional or sexual interest in another person for their entire life, my expectations would be wholly unreasonable. I would be trusting in what is virtually impossible, and possibly not even healthy.
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Savita Vega Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:48 pm
As I said, I was sure it would be a very unpopular idea, but I just want to thank all of you for your comments.
Much Love,
Savita
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Laxmi Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 5:06 pm
Dear Savita,
If someone truly belives that monogamy is impossible and thinks a insignificant hour here and tehre with someoneelse is ok should be openly telling friends and everyone what they did—not hide it.
You hide it only because you do not truly beleive in it and in deep in the heart know that it is wrong.
How many men and women have been thus ‘cheated’ and felt pain - it is universal this sense of betrayal. If these people were told by their partner not to expect fidelity then i bet you , there will be no pain. Because honesty has a power.
love,
Laxmi
P.S. I will never argue on the point whether humans are capable of monogamous relationships or not….but i will argue that if you truly love somebody then honesty is part of the deal.
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This is so true. We only have the illusion that we own people. But personally I don’t like to be owned. But to a certain extent… I like to own…
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Che forma ha l’amore? Che colore? Che odore? Che scopo? Che origine? È eterno e si trasforma, o può anche scomparire? Esiste da sempre nell’anima nel cuore di una persona, o nasce? È innato o viene appreso? Quanta energia produce? E quanta ne viene dissipata? E degno a tutti o solo a persone consapevoli? È la salvezza dell’anima, o la sua dura prova per raggiungere la salvezza? È misterioso e complicato, o così banalmente semplice da non poter essere compreso?
Fa soffrire, delirare, estasiare…ma alle varie emozioni che provoca, siamo tutti soggetti primo o poi, spesso o raramente.
L’amore è bello da essere vissuto…e bello da essere esplorato…come quando vedi il mare…nella sua infinita vastità, o quando scorgi in lontananza un isola, avvolta dalla foschia, come un sogno lontano radicato fortemente, padrone che emerge dalle acque e allo stesso tempo vittima delle stesse…il mare…identico in ogni sua estensione, e pur sempre diverso in ogni sua onda in movimento, nel colore e nel carattere…lo si teme, ma si è attratti, lo si guarda dall’asciutto, o lo si sfida in superficie e in profondità…il mare con i suoi tanti alleati, il vento, la luna, la pressione, la termodinamica, la fauna e la flora, la luce e le tenebre, le leggende e le esperienze…e questo fa di lui un Essere potente, struggente, che si manifesta nell’anima dell’uomo, tradotto in un sentimento con altrettanta potenza…tu ti dedichi a lui, dai la vita e qualcosa di più…e lui? Il mare cosa ti dà? Quello che pensi il mare ti possa trasmettere è solamente una tua creazione, un frutto della tua anima, nato dall’utero della consapevolezza dell’uomo…l’emozione nasce in noi, la creiamo noi e la trasformiamo…per quello non è da tutti…alcuni sono eletti nel saper dare la vita anche ai miracoli più mistici che il corpo non può afferrare…ma tutti prima o poi avranno a che fare con lui…e coloro che sono troppo lontani, egli apparirà in sogni consapevoli o non…le cose non sono assolute, ma esistono a seconda della percezione del singolo……
Una volta creato il sentimento, fa male tenerlo dentro…inizia e premere, scalciare…fa male, e rende felici…perché sai di avere qualcosa di vivo in te, che hai creato tu e che ora puoi liberare…l’amore porta con se anche la speranza…la speranza di essere accolto, di poter far gioire…perché a quel punto instaura un legame che trasferisce l’energia anche al creatore…e in questo modo egli potrà rispondere almeno alla domanda: qual è lo scopo dell’amore?…
L’uomo possiede questo dono divino, questa luce, in grado di trasformare l’amore, di fargli assumere forme diverse, nel tentativo di comprenderle e di comunicarle…riusciamo a trasformarlo in note, per renderlo udibile…riusciamo a scriverlo e a ballarlo, per renderlo visibile…facciamo l’amore, per renderlo percepibile al tatto e poterlo assaporare e respirare…ogni tanto siamo pervasi da un’energia così forte ed inebriante…chiamiamola felicità, o forse non è abbastanza…proviamo così lo stato energetico dell’amore…spesso inconsciamente, perché troppo misterioso…e finché lo senti dentro di te, ti senti posseduto, la tua anima è appagata…ma nel momento che ne vuoi prendere coscienza, quando cerchi il sopravvento sulla tua emozione, inizia la battaglia…e spesso ne usciamo sofferenti, o illesi, ma vuoti…e invece a volte ne usciamo feriti,…ma vivi!
Che lasso di tempo richiede l’amore per formarsi, essere riconosciuto? A volte necessita anni per farsi sentire…e a volte capita alla velocità di un respiro…lento, profondo, inteso e incisivo.
Ognuno si crea un’ immagine, un artefatto dell’amore, come,ad esempio quando una madre prepara un pasto alla sua famiglia. ci mette tutta te stessa per creare qualcosa che possa soddisfare gli altri e contemporaneamente anche se stessa. Indossa il grembiule, tira sù le maniche, impasta la farina, aggiunge uova, un pizzico di sale, il lievito che hai fatto rivivere insieme allo zucchero…e gli dai una forma: rotonda, una torre, una teglia, biscotti, trecce, monoporzioni…ma che importa la forma. L’importante è la qualità. Ma a quella donna non interessa solo il sapore della torta, la qualità degli ingredienti, ma vuole anche la forma perfetta per questo dolce. E ancora di più, la presentazione verrà anche studiata con cura…la tavola imbandita di tutto punto, verrà indossato un bel vestito, o almeno quello che sa che piace….e questo ogni giorno, ogni giorno con nuovo fervore, con nuovo entusiasmo! Non è piaciuta la tovaglia rossa, ne mettiamo una verde…….e poi? Beh, nel fantastico mondo di mary Poppins sono tutti felicemente seduti a tavola e lui la guarda ammirato. La vita reale può non essere così, ma ci è concesso di farla diventare tale, almeno fino a quando si mette la tovaglia verde. Questo è il “star bene con se stessi”.
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Alexandra Reply:
September 19th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
??? Stai pensando a questo? Mi piace Marry Poppins.
Grazie
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Whenever someone I love leaves my company, by his self will, or by dying, I lose that person. Though I could never own her/him.
All in all, I guess we own noone, and nothing. :)
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Savita Vega Reply:
September 17th, 2009 at 4:21 pm
“We’re not owners here.
We’re just passing through.”
the character of Denys Hatton in “Out of Africa”
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Annie Reply:
September 17th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
I love this quote so much..I think I have to see the movie now..you have mentioned this movie too many times…!(I think you must have said it is one of your favourites and that you remember the dialogues by heart )
Love and Graditude
Annie
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Savita Vega Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
Indeed, it is my favorite movie of all time. When I watch it, I can virtually speak along with the characters, as I have many of their lines memorized by heart. If you get a chance, do see it.
Love,
Savita
Catherine Martinez Reply:
September 18th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Thank you Savita. :)
I agree with that wonderful quote. And I’d like so much to see that 80’s movie again.
Propriety borders may give Men the feeling they could own everything. Fortunately they are “things” noone can buy.
Plus I remark: the more a person has the impression to be owned, the more he flees. It’s like a subliminal reflex. Because we all want free will and freedom inner-part.
Love
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