No one can lose anyone, because no one owns anyone.
Paulo Coelho
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When we think of it this way, it changes everything.
For instance, one thing that has always perplexed me is how people tend to behave when their lover or their spouse has a fling. By “fling” I mean a fleeting affair, one in which the lover or spouse does not leave with the “other” woman or man, but actually wants to continue with the original relationship. Even if their lover or spouse still declares that they love them and want to be with them, they act as though something has been stolen from them, as though the “other” is a thief who has come and robbed them of what was rightfully theirs. But the thing I like to ask is: What exactly has this supposed thief taken? Did your wife return from this other man’s bed missing an arm or a leg? Is half of her gone just because she spent an hour in someone else’s arms? Did your boyfriend return home without his penis just because he slept with another woman? WHAT EXACTLY has been “stolen” in such a case? If your partner’s heart is still in the relationship, then nothing – absolutely nothing – has been stolen from you. In fact, this incident might even enhance your relationship in some way that you can’t even quite understand.
I know that this is probably not a very popular view to take, but I cannot help but ask such questions when people become so angry, so thoroughly insulted over such affairs in which their partner does not even want to leave them for this other person. Their relationship is still intact, and could remain intact, perfectly unharmed, if only they could refrain from flying into a dramatic rage over the thought that something has been stolen which “belongs to” them.
And if the lover or the spouse does leave to be with this other person…? Well, I like to think of people as rivers. You can step into a river to frolic in its waters, you can enjoy its current, but you cannot stop it from flowing where it will. If you do stop it – I mean really stop it – then it isn’t a river at all anymore, but a pond or a lake. And that isn’t the same thing at all. I have no interest in swimming in ponds and lakes because they give me the creeps. All sorts of scary creatures live and thrive in still waters. I’d rather take my chances with a river, even a raging river – let it flow, admire the nobility of its savage waters, its steadfast determination to arrive at its destination even if it has to take down mountains to get there. Yes, let it flow, and one day if it isn’t there anymore – if it takes its course elsewhere, out of my reach – at least I can say that I have known a river and not just a mud puddle.
I just don’t think we can ever “own” another person in the way that our society leads us to believe we can. I don’t think we should even try.
With Love,
Savita
Dear Savita
If a person just wants to have a fling, with every tom, dick or harry then to me they are just working out their sexual appetite, their lower senses, there is a beautiful poem by Ibn Arabi:
The divine lover is spirit without body
The physical lover is body without spirit
The spiritual lover possesses both spirit and body
I think if you have a relationship that is based on more than just physical desire, then you can lose faith, lose trust and lose your love.
With love
Pandora
Trust is the thing that is stolen. An affair robs the noncheating partner of trust.
the problem is when the heart is not there anymore
muy bueno tu pesamiento josefina y conside que pienso igual que vos y me lo e preguntado muchas veses y se lo pregunte a mi esposo ,pero como el hay muchos! y no toda la sociedad pero la mayoria mas # 1 piensan diferente que nosotras ,Considero que nadie en dueno de nadia .y nadie te puede robar lo que no quieras entregar ,es como vos dijiste uno sigue el cause de un buen rio .y vivimos un dia mas ,si cremos en DIOS tarde o temprano vamos a tener que rendir cunta ,solo el tiene el derecho ,nadie mas !!!!suerte
I think the only time a relationship with three people is possible is if all 3 lived under the same roof or get together to talk about the relationship. Two people and a long affair means someone is getting hurt. Maybe the partner/spouse or the third person. The third person who falls in love is always hoping that the lover will pick him or her. So even if the original relationship is strong what about the feelings of the other person? Why prevent someone from finding love by keeping them in a physical relationship.
I think having an affair is a way of looking to distance yourself from someone emotionally so you can feel “safe” when you let go. The process of grief passes more quickly too I think, because a lot of the emotion has been dealt with. But pity the person you are having the “fling” with, because they are probably mopping it all up for you, and the person you are leaving because they may not have been given the opportunity to detach themselves in the same way.
My father had affairs because he didn’t feel loved in the way he wanted. If he didn’t feel loved then to this I say “a coward does it with a kiss, the brave man with a sword”.
With love, Daniel
Dear Savita,
I was suprised to read this post from you. As Christine put it: Trust is stolen.
Well if the person who had the fling had said:
‘Look . I not going to be physcially or emotionally faithful to you. I might meet someone and want to be with them for one hour and will come back to you (maybe not lose my penis but gain something like a veneral disease, which i would gladly share with you). I want to spend the rest of the life with you because of x reasons – one being my heart is with you and you are my soulmate. is this Ok with you?’
And the spouse said ‘ yes. That’s ok with me. by the way i might also do the same. is that ok with you?’
and the person says ‘ Yes’
Then ..only then is nothing lost.
Please do not under-estimate the loss of trust..it’s the foundation of love and respect and most important of all : Integrity to one’s own soul.
if you really love someone enough to want to spend the rest of your life with them why not have a ‘fling’ with them itself.
love,
Laxmi
As I said, I was sure it would be a very unpopular idea, but I just want to thank all of you for your comments.
Much Love,
Savita
This is so true. We only have the illusion that we own people. But personally I don’t like to be owned. But to a certain extent… I like to own…
Che forma ha l’amore? Che colore? Che odore? Che scopo? Che origine? È eterno e si trasforma, o può anche scomparire? Esiste da sempre nell’anima nel cuore di una persona, o nasce? È innato o viene appreso? Quanta energia produce? E quanta ne viene dissipata? E degno a tutti o solo a persone consapevoli? È la salvezza dell’anima, o la sua dura prova per raggiungere la salvezza? È misterioso e complicato, o così banalmente semplice da non poter essere compreso?
Fa soffrire, delirare, estasiare…ma alle varie emozioni che provoca, siamo tutti soggetti primo o poi, spesso o raramente.
L’amore è bello da essere vissuto…e bello da essere esplorato…come quando vedi il mare…nella sua infinita vastità, o quando scorgi in lontananza un isola, avvolta dalla foschia, come un sogno lontano radicato fortemente, padrone che emerge dalle acque e allo stesso tempo vittima delle stesse…il mare…identico in ogni sua estensione, e pur sempre diverso in ogni sua onda in movimento, nel colore e nel carattere…lo si teme, ma si è attratti, lo si guarda dall’asciutto, o lo si sfida in superficie e in profondità…il mare con i suoi tanti alleati, il vento, la luna, la pressione, la termodinamica, la fauna e la flora, la luce e le tenebre, le leggende e le esperienze…e questo fa di lui un Essere potente, struggente, che si manifesta nell’anima dell’uomo, tradotto in un sentimento con altrettanta potenza…tu ti dedichi a lui, dai la vita e qualcosa di più…e lui? Il mare cosa ti dà? Quello che pensi il mare ti possa trasmettere è solamente una tua creazione, un frutto della tua anima, nato dall’utero della consapevolezza dell’uomo…l’emozione nasce in noi, la creiamo noi e la trasformiamo…per quello non è da tutti…alcuni sono eletti nel saper dare la vita anche ai miracoli più mistici che il corpo non può afferrare…ma tutti prima o poi avranno a che fare con lui…e coloro che sono troppo lontani, egli apparirà in sogni consapevoli o non…le cose non sono assolute, ma esistono a seconda della percezione del singolo……
Una volta creato il sentimento, fa male tenerlo dentro…inizia e premere, scalciare…fa male, e rende felici…perché sai di avere qualcosa di vivo in te, che hai creato tu e che ora puoi liberare…l’amore porta con se anche la speranza…la speranza di essere accolto, di poter far gioire…perché a quel punto instaura un legame che trasferisce l’energia anche al creatore…e in questo modo egli potrà rispondere almeno alla domanda: qual è lo scopo dell’amore?…
L’uomo possiede questo dono divino, questa luce, in grado di trasformare l’amore, di fargli assumere forme diverse, nel tentativo di comprenderle e di comunicarle…riusciamo a trasformarlo in note, per renderlo udibile…riusciamo a scriverlo e a ballarlo, per renderlo visibile…facciamo l’amore, per renderlo percepibile al tatto e poterlo assaporare e respirare…ogni tanto siamo pervasi da un’energia così forte ed inebriante…chiamiamola felicità, o forse non è abbastanza…proviamo così lo stato energetico dell’amore…spesso inconsciamente, perché troppo misterioso…e finché lo senti dentro di te, ti senti posseduto, la tua anima è appagata…ma nel momento che ne vuoi prendere coscienza, quando cerchi il sopravvento sulla tua emozione, inizia la battaglia…e spesso ne usciamo sofferenti, o illesi, ma vuoti…e invece a volte ne usciamo feriti,…ma vivi!
Che lasso di tempo richiede l’amore per formarsi, essere riconosciuto? A volte necessita anni per farsi sentire…e a volte capita alla velocità di un respiro…lento, profondo, inteso e incisivo.
Ognuno si crea un’ immagine, un artefatto dell’amore, come,ad esempio quando una madre prepara un pasto alla sua famiglia. ci mette tutta te stessa per creare qualcosa che possa soddisfare gli altri e contemporaneamente anche se stessa. Indossa il grembiule, tira sù le maniche, impasta la farina, aggiunge uova, un pizzico di sale, il lievito che hai fatto rivivere insieme allo zucchero…e gli dai una forma: rotonda, una torre, una teglia, biscotti, trecce, monoporzioni…ma che importa la forma. L’importante è la qualità. Ma a quella donna non interessa solo il sapore della torta, la qualità degli ingredienti, ma vuole anche la forma perfetta per questo dolce. E ancora di più, la presentazione verrà anche studiata con cura…la tavola imbandita di tutto punto, verrà indossato un bel vestito, o almeno quello che sa che piace….e questo ogni giorno, ogni giorno con nuovo fervore, con nuovo entusiasmo! Non è piaciuta la tovaglia rossa, ne mettiamo una verde…….e poi? Beh, nel fantastico mondo di mary Poppins sono tutti felicemente seduti a tavola e lui la guarda ammirato. La vita reale può non essere così, ma ci è concesso di farla diventare tale, almeno fino a quando si mette la tovaglia verde. Questo è il “star bene con se stessi”.
??? Stai pensando a questo? Mi piace Marry Poppins.
Grazie
Johanne Mercile and Maria Dove Thanks a lot for the answer, i do understand now what the expression means.
Joel, that is the power of relation, sharing experiences, listening and expressing one’s sensibility when listening to the other’s inner world … happy that my sharing and Maria’s sharing helped you to find an answer, a meaning, a something that brought you to understand differently or with another view the expression. Have a nice day of this day journey for you. With affection, Jojo.
Dear joel,
i did nothing really but if you feel better is because now you understand something that was allready inside you.
With love i hope we “talk” soon.
Dear Paulo,
I agree, we are not meant to “own” anyone…except SELF. I lost myself when I allowed others to take control of my life..It took a while for me to realize that I am my own, that way I will never lose myself. So, I don’t obey. I cooperate ;)…
sending love…
hazel v.
Yes…no one owns anyone….so we cannot lose someone.
What we lose when someone important goes away is the happiness,the joy,the warm, the love and all its reflections that we could experience, live and feel when this person was present into our life.
We lose moments and feelings, but not a person.
We lose the richies we had when he/she was around..
I would say..Its my opinion…Never believe you have,own someone..even if you are at the moment sooo close to her/him.
At the End you are the only One that will get hurt throught such a Believe…because it is not true.
Some people goes away because they died, others because the love, the trust is gone…
I liked the post where it was written:
People come into our live for a purpose, a season or a lifetime.
We just own ourselves and our present moment. The moment we call NOW.
Nothing else..
Best Regards,
Ellen
Compare his quote (although I am not sure that this adds to the essence of the whole debate), but victor frankl suggests that the greatest freedom is to choose how we act in any set of circumstances and I wonder if an attempt to own or control another isn’t removing the very freedom we are seeking?
I think this quote is troublesome, because loss is interpreted in so many different ways and applies to many different circumstances that the meaning here is not always so liberating. Surely, losing someone is not the same as losing an object–it does not imply a state of ownership. Having a relationship with someone, and losing that relationship is possible, (really, it is). Heaven or otherwise, when that person goes away, you lose that relationship you had with them. Things change, and they become in some way lost from your present sense of being. They are gone, they are not here, and though we may be with them in spirit or in the afterlife, it does not replace their previous relationship with you.
So, no, I’d have to disagree with the overall message here.
(Minus, of course, the part about “owning” another person. Here I agree. Indeed, no one can own another person or force them to give or have anything. You cannot own other people if you yourself are a person. You may press them to meet your demands, but you can never truly conquer their will and make their being something that belongs to you.)
This is a very liberating quote. Thank you ! xx
On that quote, I think, and think, and think again. Indeed, I start to agree… Because, the person is not vanished, so, will always be somewhere in a way of another. Than, is not lost, can be regained! Or, if dead, is in heaven and we can meet after life. Something like that.
Love
Alexandra
I am agree no one owns anyone,but 12 years ago i lost
my daughter of 4 moths old, can you tell me in what kind of
position i am.Did i not lost someone ?
Can you explain to me?
Joel
I am sensible to the experience you had “loosing” your child. And here I am today “loosing” my mother to cancer, but then she is 74 years old. More difficult I think when they are young, but again even difficult when you have a long history of relation. What is there is the way I think one sees, interprets, or the attitude toward the “lost” … If I were the mother that lost a child, and there are many that looses every day a child naturally, accidentally, murdered, each cope with the lost various ways. Some put a meaning that helps them go through and find a path and others, being not able to pass the steps that permits to pursue the journey do not live anymore. I hope you follow me. The only for me that can give an answer is the Universe for that specific person, but what I can say from my experience is that there are steps for the rational and irrational mind to make … feel the lost, be angry at the lost, cry the lost, comprehension that the lost is on a physical basis, transform the lost to a gain for the person that stays, etc … I today view all on a soul basis, and on a basis that there is a comprehension that surpasses human comprehension, and even if it is hard, I have faith in the Universe and also that belief that one day answers will come, here, on this Earth or after … and for the time being I think one should pursue his path. Your child is always in your hearth, he came for a time and why such short time, I cannot answer, and why you had to live that experience, I cannot answer. That is your path. But what I could do is share with you for me how I would live with that lost and believing that I do not own anybody helps me to pursue my path, have faith, and see maybe signs that will help me as a soul to define precisely what I need to resolve, find, accomplish, share with others, etc … And again, Joel, very sensible to you loosing your child. Yes, we do not own anybody … but then we must I think respect all that irrational that is lifted when such an experience occur. My mind can repeat that citation on and on but experiences of lost makes me able to integrate it step by step. Unfortunately, and at the same time that is the wonder, only experiences can make the knowledge and conscience grow, the true ones, on a long term basis, on a transformation basis that becomes “natural”, that flows … With love, Jojo.
Dear joel,
when i read your comment i felt pain and sorrow i lost someone very precious too allow me a few words and i wish i couid lift your burden.
You have every right to feel angry and lost and furious i sense that you haven’t exressed them yet.
I respect the fact of loosing your child the pain and the feelings you have.
You ask if you lost her.
The answer is no you didin’t, she will always be in your heart, in your mind in your thoughts so she lives eternally in you.
We loose someone if we forget him and not by his physical death.
Keep in mind that sometimes we must loose something to get it back.
with respect to your lose.
Dear Joel,
You speak of what is my greatest fear. I remember when my daughter was born and I was holding her in my arms. I looked down and this overwhelming terror suddenly struck my heart. I thought: “Oh, My God, what have I gotten myself into?” because I realized, in that moment, that this was not like any other love that I had ever known. A part of my very soul was connected to this tiny, fragile creature that I held in my arms, and I realized in that moment that I was in great danger. Anyone else that I had ever lost in my life, I could get over it. Even the worst romantic breakup was survivable. But this was different. I knew that. I thought: If anything ever happens to her, it will surely kill me.
I have never lost a child, but I remember that feeling so clearly, and it is still with me. It resides forever in the back of my mind as this fear – the one thing in life that has the potential to utterly destroy me: if my daughter were to die. I cannot fathom it. I cannot imagine it. I cannot conceive of how I could possibly continue to live if such a tragedy were to strike. It is absolutely the worst possible thing that I could ever possibly imagine happing in my life.
And yet you are alive, Joel. Somehow you have survived and are continuing to survive. I don’t even know what to say, because that so deeply and profoundly amazes me. Just you existence, your continued existence, is of awe in my eyes.
Of course, I could try to offer some comforting or “wise” words, but there is a part of me that senses how utterly meaningless all human wisdom is in the face of such loss. I could try to say that you didn’t really “lose” anything – I could try to say that in a lot of different ways – but my words, even to my own ears, would seem utterly absurd. For example, I believe in reincarnation, but even this does not comfort me when I think of the possibility of losing my daughter.
Although I do agree with Paulo’s quote, just know that I can also understand, at least to some small degree, where you are coming from in declaring that this quote, in your situation, makes no sense at all. Some things in life just don’t make any sense. There is no way to “make meaning” of them. We just have to learn to confront and live engulfed in the “meaninglessness” of it.
My love goes out to you and your family.
Sincerely,
Savita
Dear Joel,
When I became a mother, I was terrified at the thought that I might lose them…They could get involve in accidents and get killed..or they could die for any reason at all…I spent years being overly protective towards them..It was very exhausting..And they were very pressured by me always wanting to know where they are and what are they doing and who they are with…
But then I had a light bulb moment… that children really are not ours to own and to hold for the rest of our lives..Even if we give birth to them, we don’t own them..They are gifts from our Creator that we need to treasure and to look after..They are the extentions of our lives..but does not necessarily mean that they will live longer than us. we are just so priviledge to be here in LIFE and to experience being the vehicles that transport God’s precious children to experience the gift of life ..The “gift” is that precious moments we spend with them..Whether they stay with us for long or short time, it’s the memory of having them around that lingers on until it’s time for us to go…Gifts make us smile…and so i have told myself that no matter what happens, I will hold on to the smiles my children brought into my life and i will continue to feel grateful for the gift of life…I set myself free so they can be free..Whether they go before me or outlive me, I let things be…
To my mind, you have with you the memory of that “gift” which you will treasure for the rest of your life. When you free yourself from the feeling of “loss”, you will smile for the rest of your life just the thought of this beautiful baby who came and stayed for a short time but left you a long lasting warm memory of love …take care..oxoxoxo…
sending love,
hazel v.
For me,normality is an ordinary thing we must done daily but, sometimes people can’t accept of being who you are,they want you to follow their rythems.This makes a person confuse and stress about themself and try an extraordinary thing to do.Live in a society is not easy especially when you’re somebody.To me, being who you ‘re and act like who you wanna be is better.small or bigest changin in you life can make you a better or bad person.If the change makes advantages to you life,so follow it but if not, left it behind.Being a normal person makes us fell blessing.small or bigest changin in you life maybe can brought goodness or can harm your life.Sometimes following what people said are not good…..trend are also can make you disaster though you wearing an expensive clothes or new jewellary….makes your lips bigger than before only made you like a Donald Duck or even you walk people will judge on you so, why you must following what people say about you?try to accept who you’re and where you came from because, in the end, you can’t please everybody.LESS IS BETTER THAN MORE.act as you want to be…..accept the changin when it’s better for you or if you want it to be….sometimes, losin something in yourself, can makes you losin everything so, appreciated yourself because, nobody can’t recognised yourself as you are….. TQ…..God Bless You….
YES.
Does that mean if we own our “self” then we can lose our self as well?
Can we not own even our self?
The madness of being normal.
Puedo decir que es un tema amplio. Empecemos por cosas sencillas como por ejemplo; ser normal es llevar vestido a la escuela si eres nina, vestir pantaloncito si eres hombrecito, comprar ropita azul si el bebe es un varon y rosa si es una nina. La verdad ese podria ser mi enojo con lo normal siempre estereotipan la vida para que todo sea, a mi punto de vista monotono, igual, aburrido, tedioso. No solo en este ejemplo vemos como la gente se encasilla, si no tambien la forma en la que vivimos, por ejemplo; el materialismo si eres una persona normal te levantas de la cama, te peinas te lavas los dientes, te pones tus mejores ropas para que cuando salgas a la calle la gente te vea como alguien normal. La verdad yo llevo una vida mucho mas relajada, distinta, me gusta levantarme mirar hacia la ventana ver el nuevo dia a las aves que usan posarse en mi ventana, salgo a caminar un poco en mi patio trasero riego mis plantas, platico con ellas, atiendo a mi mascota que es un perrito muy carinoso e inteligente, regreso a mi abitacion despierto a mi nina la llevo a la escuela y a diferencia de otras personas yo no me maquillo, no uso ropa costosa,y no por que no tenga dinero para comprar cosas lujosas pero la verdad el sentido de mi vida es otro, vivir, disfrutar, respirar con el alma el nuevo dia.Dia a dia lucho contra la sociedad contra lo normal siempre me critica mi familia por que dicen que voy encontra de la corriente y la verdad si, algo que tengo muy claro es no hacer lo mismo que todos hacen, todo tiene un sentido, una hubicacion; no debemos hacer las cosas sin entender el por que. Siempre que sale un nuevo aparato electronico, todos salen a la tienda a comprarlo, no importa lo que cueste. Nadie se pregunta en realidad necesito eso, que utilidad le voy a dar, vale la pena gastar tanto dinero en algo que no le sacaremos un provecho beneficioso para nuestras vidas. La verdad es que nos preocupamos muy poco por nosotros por lo que sentimos. Ultimamente los “normales” se comportan como seres huecos sin suenos ni ilusiones, como robots que hacen lo que la mayoria hace. Si quieres ser normal no te olvides de que estas hecho de carne y hueso y de que tienes un alma, un corazon, no somos de metal.
This is absolutelly what I was thinking.
I don’t pretend to make my friend happy or worry to loose him since I don’t have him from the beginning.
We are 2 separated being, independent, individual and unique.
If we are supposed to be friends, we have to accept each othet the way we are and if the friendship continues, it is because there is something to learn, experience.
es cierto,
es solo esta necesidad tan imperiosa de querer pertenecer
a alguien que confundimos eso con el hecho de que aun asi, esa persona no precisamente pertenecera a nosotros…
el amor es egoista, por que cuando amamos queremos que la persona amada sea solo nuestra.
si la perdemos sufrimos por esa perdida,
cuando en realidad nunca es del todo nuestro,
es como la felicidad que es momentanea, fugaz,
pero no aprendemos y volvemos a caer una y otra vez mas…
This quote is so true!
Unfortunately in most cases that`s the concept of Love: I love you therefore I own you, you belong to me.
Instead of: I LOVE YOU, YOU ARE FREE TO BE…
‘No one can lose anyone, because no one owns anyone’
This is when we need to realize that some people come into our lives for a reason a season or a lifetime. People who MAY find solace in the above sentence fall into the first two categories, the reason or the season.
But we All know that once in that situation, there really isn’t much anyone can say to take the pain away. All of us Have, at one time or another, been in that situation, and although we know we don’t own anyone or anything, it is an excruciating pain, the pain of separation, and really, it’s a part of being human and being alive and time is the only real healer.
If the relationship goes well, the couple fall into the category of lifetime, maybe marriage maybe not, but definitely a long time of being together in the same vicinity. The partners enjoy being together and Want to be together, so there is no separation. Then it may be a reason or a season, and both partners are happy with what they had, and still happy to move on. In which case, a ‘feel good’ sentence wouldn’t be a necessity for either of them.
But, the sentence is meant for the situation where one partner does not want the other anymore, whereas the other wants more.
This happens for Many reasons, reasons which are very specific to the individuals situations, interactions, level of communicating ability and many other things.
This is what Paulo means when he says ‘love can consign us to either Heaven or Hell’
Love and Kisses
C.
Beautiful, Carolena and full of … wisdom.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
a non clinging attitude?
love
aditya
Dear Carolena
i totaly agree with you that was very nice and mature
Newly separated, but definitely not lost. Friendship and common child will always be a central part of my life.
that’s is so true, but is so hard for us in our society to learn how to live happy with someone without being so attach to people.
I agree that no one owns anyone else but you can most definitely lose someone. If you feel someone that you love is slipping away, you have to fight for them…don’t just be passive and make believe that it isn’t happening. I feel like my boyfriend is at times losing me b/c he doesn’t talk to me about anything of substance and all that I really want is for him to try…to come to me and talk and tell me how he feels and what he thinks…and he acts like nothing is happening. I don’t know if I that means that he doesn’t care for me or if he has an inability to communicate. At a certain age we should all have overcome an inability to communicate, right?
its a powerful statement, to strip the ego back, because then you cant possibly lose anyone!
christine,
maybe he doesnt have anything to say, and he just wants to be
ange
This quote is something I often thought about in the last days.
I think if you really love someone, you don’t want to own him or her – you just want him to be happy! It is beyond any personal desire.
Here are extracts from a little book that I like called “Petite philosophie du bonheur pour temps de crise” (Little philosophy of happiness in time of crisis) of Candide Moix. He says that one thing that is necessary for all to “live good” is detachment. We possess a lot of things. We cultivate Having instead of Being. We accumulate objects. We get submerged of inutile things or superficial things. We look like hamsters that stock grains in their hole. Funny, we seem to like being submerged. We put more instead of getting rid, lighter. A gardener cut branches, takes off the bad grass, herbs, turns the soil, etc … A sculptor works the rock and from that work obtains his “oeuvre d’art”. Detachment does not only concern material belongings. It is also distance pertaining to ideas, events, believes that keep in prison and to whatever complicates life. It is important to have suffisant material needs, formation, actualization in all domains. A certain comfort that facilitates life and that goes in the sense of an authentic actualization of a person. It is not a question of getting rid of all. The world is so crazy that we could be tempted to run away. Not to do. Faith goes beyond and asks us not to reject the present situation.
Practice detachment. Why? To be more free and fill full. It is a question of health for the body and spirit. Detachment is not fleeing or isolating but a universal liberty versus rules. Saint Paul said “I learned in all circumstances and in all manners to be satisfied, as I am full of food or hungry, to live in abundance or in need. I can all in the One that makes me strong.” Detachment is not amputation, mutilation. Why? For a simple reason: To be capable of detachment is to abandon what is of secondary importance but has a tendancy of occupying a place so important that the essential risks to be forgotten. Detachment is in the centre of the Scriptures. Other writings also talks about that capacity. To be able to be detached is to become free of what can obstruct the Being. To detach oneself on a material basis is to limit, to refuse false needs only created for the good function of an economic machine, moderating desires, pleasures. It means to not get submerged, to let go what is not necessary and say not to the power of domination of the Having Mentality. It means to refuse obsession of having to feel secure at any cost and of the insurance of no risk. On a spiritual level or intellectual level, to be detached is to know to doubt of his certainties, of his opinions all made. Detachment is an attitude that Emmanuel Mounier called “the spirit of poverty”. Detachment concerns the development of the person. To become, to be born again day after day, we must die to ourselves, to liberate ourselves from ourselves, of Ego, of narcissim, of “nombrilisme” by giving and going beyond. To question ourselves often is an excellent antidote to vanity and egoism. We must be free of all illusions, of false beliefs, laugh from the hearth when it is possible. Act seriously but never take ourselves too seriously, because life gives us each day humility lessons.
To be able to let go, to be detached is not “losing” is it gaining, it is becoming rich spiritually, it is satisfy the taste that stays. It means that when we encounter difficulties on our path, we must try day after day to direct our attention on the positve and negative, and not one over the other. More we develop detachment, more we are free and more deeply satisfied we are. That Good Fight is there all our life, the conquest of one person, via efforts, sadness, success, joy, failures and sufferings.
Hope that was good for you to read as it was for me … it is a traduction from me and maybe reading can something seem “strage”, but I did the best I could for you friends. Cordially, Jojo.
Dear Jojo,
Thanks for sharing.
Love,
Laxmi
HI Jojo,
i too will say what is said in this, but does it not appear contradictory to the current trends, now a days we are asked to dream big, dream bigger, to not be satisfied with whatever we have ( contrast this with what that saint said ), what paulo keeps on telling to find our treasure etc etc. Is there any contradiction ?
love
aditya
I though that I lost someone, but actually I lost myself, because I based my live on that person’s live. And when he disappeared, I suddenly died. I was walking, working but I was dead.
I had to reborn myself. Now I am alive and I will never build my live on someone. I created my new live on me. But now I noticed that I cannot love anyone, because love is to give yourself to someone fully.
What is better: to live for someone and be vourneable and depend on someone’s decisions or live for yourself and do not care what people think about you and just like yourself as you are.
Difficult decision. You always gain something and lose something.
It is difficult to choose what to loose and what to gain. I think that live is about it – about making conscious decisions and than living with consequences of that decisions.
dear justina,
i have been in your place believe me i know your pain and the torture of the soul.
Don’t do this to yor self anymore.The love you gave the feelings for him are not in vain he just doesn’t benefits from them. Allthough it is true we don’t own anyone these are yours.
Life is a circle until we learn our lesson but i am afraid you haven’t learn yours.
You swan in the darkness but you found the way to the light isn’t that a big deal?
That is the way to wisdom and mature. You have grown because you experienced pain and pain equals to life.
You have been blessed. Don’t shut your heart, don’t give up even if next time you crash again or maybe you don’t.
That’s the only way to find out the next best companion but if you are not willing to take risk and open your heart again why someone should bother love you?
Would you love someone like that?
Agreed. What we lose is all the energy we had invested in dreams and plans with those we feel we have lost. “Losing someone” is just an expression. I feel that we do lose something much more valuable, more personal, at the end of a relationship. We lose confidence, innocence, and even faith.
Faith can be regained and lost as that seems to be the cycle. I am not certain that the innocence can ever be regained. (Not that anyone I have ever met wishes to regain it.) Confidence can also be built up again. I don’t think we ever love again like that first time.
I just finished Brita, and feel a bit disturbed by Master Paulo once again.
Marko
Very nice .Love your post.
Nikky
Dear Marko,
I could relate to everything you say…you are right we lose a bit of ourselves …but maybe that loss of innocence/faith is like chipping away on a stone to create a sculpture.
Love,
Laxmi
Dear Marko, thank you. The time of … innocence never returns.. The wounds are there to ‘reminds’ us.
So about ‘Brida’… Why .. disturbed? This is how Paulo Coelho has imagined it. It is ‘his’ world and we just have a .. glimpse in it.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Paulo’s quote of the week is always a surprising inspiration.
It is a coincidence I was just reading a 17th century Chinese poetry that perhaps echoes with Paulo’s chosen quote,
“If in life, all relationships remain as they were
when the two people first met,
then no one would have a reason to sigh and be upset.
Knowing it is common for hearts to change, yet
‘how can my beloved one’s heart change?’ I still fret.”
Pardon my poor translation, basically the poet meant, things will be ideal if the feelings of two people when they first met could be preserved: the curiosity for each other, the respect, the patience, the consideration, the tolerance, the attention, and how we often try to show the best of ourselves to impress a newly met.
And it is known that our feelings for people change, but still it is our beloved person that change, we will still be astonished. The poet implies, if we remember how easy a person’s heart can change, perhaps we would not feel as upset when a relationship ends…
And it is always better to remember it always take two individuals to build a relationship. And the two individuals will remain as individuals, despite sharing a relationship…
Hi laucian !
nice sharing. it’s all about remembrance, they say.
it’s not as if we don’t know that people may change, but when that happnes we forget that people might chnage, we once agin hanker for that illusion called permanence and get disappointed.
all matsres have repeatedly said, it not that we have to learn anything new, we are all learned enough, it’s the question of being consious enough specially in those moments.
love
aditya
I may not own anyone but I may lose their love and that is what I think it means when you lose them.
as of now, i agree with you
but what happens to that lost love? where does it go? or is it true that love being an energy is never destroyed, just transformed?
I think we never loose anything or anyone it just tranforms into more love and so forth -..we feel the physical loss yes ..but its essence never leaves us ..we are all part of the divine ..we what we are really searching for in wanting to own anybody is our own soul..
People mirror this to us ,so we can learn more about ourselves ..and we can then become more whole and learn to love oursselves -more..There is alot we can learn from our shadow ,,and our contracts with people and ourselves ..we are all at the end of day children of God ..feeling that u can own anybody is about control ..and we should just let go and love – treasure the experience of it all ..Instead of wasting all your energy on where that person is or whome they are with or looking fo them in the street or in crowds ..wishing to see them ..we just have to enjoy our days and not be wishing it away ..If we leave at anytime or depart then its Gods will ..Blessings Tania ..
dear tania,
what do you mean “transform into more love”?
can you enlighten me with this?
how could it be more when it is lost?
love, precious
it is so true. i want to extend this idea to things and ideas, too.
especially idea…..hmm,
i just want to be keep inspired and hopefully keep inspire…
YO CREO QUE NO PODEMOS PERDER A OTRA PERSONA PORQUE COMO DICES, NO SOMOS DUEÑOS DE ELLAS, AUNQUE A VECES SI NOS CREAMOS, PERO APARTE LO MAS TRISTE PARA MI, ES CUANDO TE PIERDES TU MISMO, CUANDO NO TE VALORAS NI TE AMAS…..Y CUANDO TE DAS CUENTA A VECES YA ES DEMASIADO TARDE….
that’s good, it means we are free then.
I agree that no one owns anyone but as for no one losing anyone I’m inclined to disagree.
If you are talking about them leaving you for someone else or just deciding it’s time to move on and leaving then yes I agree, they should be free to come and go as they please, even though it can be a very painful experience..
How about a death surely that is loss as neither party have chosen to part, rather they have been parted..
Then again now I think about it if you don’t own them then even through death you haven’t lost them exactly, rather they have moved on and that is likely to every bit as painful an experience if not more so..
So I suppose I agree then..think I’ve just confused myself..:-)
“Не счесть разлук во Вселенной этой-найти любовь всегда нелегко.”(Романтическая песня)
True and we understand it when we really lost somebody, because then we realize we didn’t own them.
We do not belong to anyone coz we are ourselves witin without unanswered queries of identity to what not.
I can’t own myself, so how could I own another soul?
Stay free,
ivana
You do own yourself. Who else would?
Who makes you run, when you are in a hurry? Who finds you food, when you are hungry? Who will always be with you, even at the edge of the universe?
Indeed noone owns nobody, but still we can use the word “lose” for some people around us. And when we lose those that we love, then it is a sad loss.
I believe that when we get sad or cry or start cursing for the loss of some specific persons it is not because we do it for them. We do it for us.
We don’t mourn for the dead. We cry for our pain.
We don’t get desperate because our mate has gone away or cheated us. We cry because we feel the pain. The real situation is inside us. It just needs a good reason to reveal itself.
In accordance with your words for me, dear Yannis. Jojo.
yes u said it yannis, we cry because we feel the pain, and paulo’s quote if understood correctly, frees one from the pain in relationships, while maintaining the fragrance of them.
love
aditya
Dear Yannis,
You are right that sometimes we mourn for ourselves. But sometimes we mourn for the pain of someone you love…
When my father died i mourned for my loss and then i when i realized that i was mourning for my loss I stopped. I started mourning for my mother’s loss though..her’s was an irreplacable loss and seeing her in pain was painful.
love,
laxmi
hello yanni,
your thoughts are mostly correct but i think you overlooked something.
For example when your mate abandon you you naturally say you lost her.
But if don’t own her what is the thing you lost?
Your feelings?
No if you really loved her you will love her even if she is gone.
You cry for your pain? Which pain exactly the one you have been abandonded or the one you felt betrayed?
All i am saying is that when we suffer from a lose of any kind is because we lost a piece of our heart, of our dreams, of our faith a piece of us which can never be restored that’s why cry and pain.
Love and feelings if they are true are never in vain stay with us the one that leaves takes away everything but these. So in a way we own him we carry him.
Hi, i agree but…, try to explain it to my wife.
It depends on the level of concience of each person. And belive me, it´s impossible to convince anyone about it. At least in my case.
Best regards.
Ask your wife to read the blog of this week! Maybe it shall ring a bell for her…Who knows??
Gussi !
worry not freind 1 wives are supposed to eb like that, she won’t be a wife who gets convinced by her husband. and why wife alone, even freinds, it takes a very courageous heart to accept and express gratitude.
to get around teh problem, my strategy has been, u just try, say it, only few courageous souls will be able to say oh yes now that is inteeresting, it throws a fresh perspective, rest will argue and a wife who does not argue is not doing her role play properly, but the crux of what u have said will stay with them, and u may be surprised when say 6 months down the line, the same person may try to say the same thing, now that wisedom would have become theirs.
do u’r bit, sing your song, if someone cares fine, if no still fine.
love
aditya
Dear Gussi,
Before we talk about your wife’s acceptance of this qoute..do you think 100% in your heart and agree that you do not ‘own’ your wife?
love,
Laxmi
Yes, since we are in bodies and we love and we are ‘in love’, then we want to possess! To hug and hold our loved ones. To be happy just by … being near. We may think that we have them, possess them or that they possess us but this is .. an illusion. The spirit, the mind, the soul or the thoughts maybe a .. thousand miles away.. WE ARE FREE SPIRITS in bodies. What we long and desire and dream of, is to be .. ONE with another Soul: The Soul Mate. The dream LOVE. And this will not be or seem a ‘possession’ or a prison.. It is Paradise on Earth! To have your thoughts and body and senses and ‘super-senses’ fully and completely open to the loved one. The … transparency of souls.. The happiness to be ONE and not … two trees one next to the other as … Chalil Gibran says.. I believe that since he has lost his only unique love, he had lost his faith ..
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
HI Thelma !
illusions – what is not an illusion here, u go after something and by the time u reach it, it has started disappearing, illusion. problem is that we don’t see the illusionary, trasinet state of things, we long for permanece. the soul mate, the ultimate soulmate is within you, and then you are one with all souls.
love
aditya
wow…beautifully spoken words….
Dear Thelma and Aditya,
Enjoyed your back and forth posts on this subject…i have no strong opinion though i tend to agree with Thelma that a soul longs for merging with another to become ‘One’ with just one soul.
The way i look at it…before we try to merge with all the souls..we should try merging with one ;)
love,
Laxmi
Ahhhh, seems so…But I disagree. Thats subjective.We have that feeling of being linked, so, is not related to ownership, but to the feeling of being used, being very near to somebody.
And if we take into consideration the unity, thinking we are part of a whole, I mean in a couple of lovers, than, sure we see we miss one, if we lose our soul mate…
yes alexandra
that is how situation is. what is need not remain what is, the way ahead is this quote from paulo. i know what u mean by that feeling of being used, cheated. it is very very difficult to live life without expectations ( and yet maintaining a steady stream of work / efforts ), but that is the way. soul mates are never lost, by virtue of their being soulmates, they are indestructible as souls, the present time, although gate to eternity, is not the only era that has been or will be, sometimes pateince spanning across lives is required, for a moment of togatherness !
love
aditya
Maybe wise, but far away from life’s realtity, because emotional dependance on others is very human. – So you will feel the absense of a beloved person always as a loss and it takes time to get over it. You have to accept it, but such wise words will not help you, if you miss someone sadly.
We own nothing forever, because we all have to die one day – but you must be a at least a Buddha to bear all the “losses” we experience in life only with a wise smile. I am no Buddha.
monika,
u’r reply makes me smile, u know why Buddha is called Buddha ( His original name was siddharth ), because a large chunk of populace in india at that time and few even now felt that the chap was a ‘buddhu’ meaning an ignorant fool. ( of course there is another school of thought which says buddha is for prabuddha menaing one who is awakened, wise )
love
aditya
is the true : me , you everybody is free , anyone is owner´s person , because we are free to love , speak , dream , dance , hear , feel , all that we need , i thing is feel security because the persons aren´t a cow´s flock, we are only free.
:)…………..:)
Then what happnes to all our loved once whom we loose at some point of time or the other and what happnes to all the sadness of lost love.
love
aditya
That’s exactly my question too…
I do not know for those that I would have “lost” what happens, since that belongs to them. As for the sadness, as anything, it transforms, if I let it free to be transformed. With affection, Jojo.
Just feel the sadness, Aditya! Since it is YOU that feels it, it is one of YOUR parts of yourself as well…
Hi freinds !
emi your ( and mine too ) question has been answerd by annie and jojo.
we feel a sense of loss and conssequent sadness because of our feeling of ownership or things / people belonging to us. Once someone comes to teh understanding that paulo’s quote indicate, then that sadness, that sense of loss is gone. a maturity sets in.
and pandora is absolutely right, logic plays no part in love, one cannot plan to fall ( or actually raise ) in love. it’s like those three simpletons in one of paulo’s fables, who knew know formal prayer, but in their simplicity their being was a prayer.
Yannis, which sadness, i have come to this quote sometime ago, since then my being is so deep that the sadness remains on surface, deep within tranquility prevails.
love
aditya
Sadness or suffering, we brought all those emotions to ourselves. Like this quote “We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thought” . If we truly understand where those emotions come from, we can be free.
Children are great ways of getting to understand that nobody owns anybody! As days went by, years, difficulties, etc, I am now more detached as they say … well, not feeling guilty of being able to be so because in a sense I was always. I see my children as souls with their own path to follow. I see my mothers death that is approaching as her soul now entering a new stage. I see myself as a soul that has accomplishments to do, knowledge to acquire, etc … I see one person on my path as a “rendez-vous” that was to be, live it and go my way if I sense that that has to be. I do not force anything anymore. “Live and let live” … If a relation is on the way of dying, well, I try not to see why on my part, why on the other part but what have I got to understand, comprehend, not taking it personally and not putting the blame, the responsibility etc on the other. It is just it. Yes, emotions are there, good or bad, but beyond emotions is a message to be capted. So, I found it easy today to apply the “live and let live”, be more detached the day I understood that I am here for me, to accomplish, to elevate, to attain a goal, and that relations are there in my life to help to achieve it and the other too … for the time that it was meant to be. Cordially, Jojo.
May all the parents be the strong and mighty bows; from these bows, may all their children get winged to a healthy and a real life, a life that is only theirs and doesn’t belong to anyone!
The rest of your post a just splendid. There is only one comment I would make, but I don’t feel like commenting such beautiful inspiration right now…
YES FREE!
Ok, you cannot lose anyone, but you can lose TRUE LOVE..i know that when you get separated from your loved one, because he wants to and thinks it’s for the best, you can’t do anything because you don’t own him..however, this doesn’t mean that you don’t lose something greater..maybe, i haven’t expressed what i wanted to say very clearly..plz, don’t misunderstand me..
Best Regards to everyone,
Emi
I think you are very obvious, Emi.
And I agree with you…
Maybe it is about us not always thinking of owning people, but missing the times we had with them, missing them, being with them, connecting with them, as we USED TO. Being, for some reason, separated, either physically or mentally, from someone. Maybe being too much clinging on someone, or putting pressure on them.
I have often seen this happen in the EROS love, as we here spoke about different love types, that people thing they “own” someone. But that is just a chunk of sand in the ocean. What I’m trying to say, is that taking always something from OUR perspective is not enough. We should look behind WHY do these people feel that way (if others feel that towards us), or why does it seem to us that they think so (not always what we think or see is what really is, in fact)… lets dive into the circumstances. Or why do WE feel this way, if it is in fact us, who are feeling this way.
To be separated from someone mentally is, for me, tougher – if I really want to feel close to that someone on a mental level and for some reason we’re growing apart. Then I feel devastation. I feel alone.
After I moved to another city to study, my ‘old friends’ felt as I left them, because from now on I did not have as much time to commit in our relationship. I had to go on with my life, but it didn’t include my friends in it as often as one hoped. They took it as an insult, as if I am not putting in enough effort, as in I am not caring about them as much anymore to spend more time with them – they took it personally. Although that wasn’t my intention at all. I just had to go and do “my thing”.
But the thing is – often people do not think as they are owning You, but they concentrate on the things that have been missing or taken away, for some reason. Sometimes on purpose, sometimes just life happens… but often we just do it out of saddness of losing that connection we hoped to preserve.
My message is – not everyone acts as we own someone, neither does someone always think that way, but it’s what one misses, that may seem as trying to own someone – the clinging. But if one has had something and it’s taken away, it will become hard to lose it.
We can’t tell others what to feel, if they feel clingy, let them feel clingy. Because I think I can understand it – I lost my grandfather – I NEVER thought I owned him, but that doesn’t change the fact that I really miss him and that I feel it as a loss. When he died, I felt like it was a great loss – and that does not mean I was having an ownership relationship with him. Yet, I later found ways to connect with him without he being around in the physical world we live in.
~*~*~*~
That was about humans world between humans. But what about humans and animals?
Also, I’d like to apply this weeks quote to pet owners in the world. A lot of pet owners take their animals as something they own. I’d like to change this view. Even an animal can be a personality on their own – so why not go beyond “I got it to guard my yard.” “I got him to chase these darn mice I have in the house.” to a “I love how he’s a part of our life now!” Even if it’s just a hamster, a rat, or a bird that seems to do “nothing”. Everything in this world is SOMETHING. So why not apply it also on everything.
~*~*~*~
Overall,
lets be compassionate.
Lets see the reasons behing the feelings.
Lets see the circumstances.
And then we will see, if it is the pure feeling of ownership or not.
And if it is US, who want to ‘own something/someone’ or others.
Love,
Liina
Good one Liina..enjoyed your post..especially about the animals.
Reminded me of my father…he never allowed us to chain our dog throughout it’s lifetime..even when we had guests who were afraid of dogs he wouldn’t lock our dog away in a room.
love,
Laxmi
IS IT A QUOTOF PAULO COELHO OR OF SOMEONE ELSE IF ITS OF SOMEONE ELSE THEN PLEASE LET KNOW HIS NAME
Pretty chewed and old one. But the thought it right :)
VERY TRUE
Yes, I agree. People can buy, sell, and own things. Spirits are free, and remembering this is a huge comfort.
Thank You, Much Love to All : ) xo
If everybody lived by this maxim there would be a lot less trouble in the world.
Provided that it comes naturally and not because we push ourselves to feel like that!
Good point Annie…
Yes! To lose the sense of being, or to lose your child (even though I don’t own my child, merely given birth to her, I have thought I lost her once in a crowd, and I have NEVER experienced such terror in my entire life)…
XXX
Dear sis,
So many people never had themselves, because their loved one’s never ‘got lost’.
(you know I’m kidding… I don’t have to tell you when I use an extreme expression ‘get lost’ in an ironic way, just to get my point through. People should leave each other alone from time to time, to make everybody find themselves. You understand me in a good sense sis, right?)
Love you Kalinka!
Heart
We cannot change the world, Annie. But if you did whatever you felt in a right and a just way, then you cannot blame anyone. We just react according to our emotions…
PS: why don’t you just propose him/her to take a look at this blog? Maybe it will speak to his/her heart.
Yannis you opened my “curiosity box” … feel free to comment. You know I am the type that expresses what is there at the moment, and I know that I do not hold the truth. The only truth that I hold is what emanates from my experiences on a day to day basis … moves all the time, becomes more and more clear, and other parts well need comments to take of the dust … with affection, Jojo.
Not a nice thing to say to a dear one indeed, but if a family member is one of those dominating ones, trying to crush every attempt you do to be yourself, then we can tell them ‘get lost’ in a polite way…
i) sorry, but I’d really like some time to my self
ii) Oh, let me just finish what I’m doing, and we can talk later
iii) just a minute, let me work on this project alone for awhile
iv) don’t you have anything to do yourself
v) why don’t you get a life yourself
vi) please LEAVE ME ALONE
VlI) GET OUT OF MY FACE
viii)…. get lost!
hehe,
Heart
Once in a while we call our freinds basterds, as in u lucky basterd, or u …. basterd. not in anger, in jest. In india ( cannot speak for whole country, least someone objects) people say freindship is still not solid if u cannot speak to each other with a sprinkling of abuses.
jokes apart.
annie, yes its is sad to lose one self, as most of us have done. lost in expectations, lost in trying to make ends meet. But on the path there comes a time when one has to voluntarily loose oneself, let go of our need to control our situations, remember that moment in paulo’s pilgrimage. when he went up a waterfall, a moment came when he did not see how he will cross, he just let go and did as he was told, he survived that moment and that alongwith a few other incidences changed the man, a rebirth happned. so rules and opinions are there but everything has a validity till a ceratin point.
love
aditya
Hi annie ! i hope my three chances are not up yet ( see i am taking a blind step, suppose they are up and over, then i have had it ),
yes there was path and it revealed itself to paulo at last moments of the particular expedition. by loosing oneself what i understood was that we loose our judgement, our opinions ( till we wake up,other than that what are we ? ) and just go. according to what i undertood, paulo lost himslef ( as he was till that time ) when he decided to go up the waterfall, even when all his senses were telling him that he most probably won’t make it and may die, he risked death. a path revealed itself which was challenging, very challenging but a man who has alreday risked his life ( remember those situations when our lives are at risk, we find so much reserves of energy, acute awareness etc etc ), he made it. in those monets the old paulo ( the normal human being ) was lost, he died and rebirth happened. your ‘quote’ is not wrong, it is stupid to lose oneself, specially lost in our waking sleep, when we need to find means to ‘kill’ time. that kind of losing oneself is tragic, another oppertunity wasted, but at some point in our lives we need to be willing to lose opurselves ( whatever we think we are ) to make that quantum leap of…… faith ?
love
aditya
Ok, abuse each other 3 strikes, then out…for time out..then try again, 3 new chances…this is life :)
Love and Admire you two!
Heart
A bit like buses then ;-D
There is a saying in London, “You wait for ages for one to come, and then ten come at once” (this relates to buses).
Logic plays no part in love, or in catching a bus!
Yes, your are right, Annie. The way I wrote it isn’t that good. What I meant is what Arkas has written (perhaps, you know Arkas, the Hellene guy with the books). Anyway, he wrote: some things are like our toes. Meaning, they are not in our hands!
What I think I should share here is: “be the change you want to see in the world”.
Selfish is a very misunderstood word, hoewever. What’s wrong with it? Think how many things we do everyday, that are selfish. We eat and we satify our hunger. We donate money and we feel good for that. Even when we have sex, it is ourself that we try to satisfy and consequently our mate receives that action (of course the same goes for our mate). When we mourn for a dead, it our pain and loss that torments us.
In all the above phrases, I wrote “We”, “Us”, “Ourselves”, “Ours”. And I don’t believe, I could have written them using other words…!
As I said, your whole post is magnificent. I agree to whatever you say, with one exception.
Yes, take life as it comes, accept the events, because they indeed have something to say to you. Just avoid the one and only trap. Your own defenses.
Here is what I mean: I hope it never happens to you, but let’s say that you get fired. Indeed, this is a fact that shall change your life. I believe it happens for a reason, too. But don’t use such mottos or quotes to appease your feelings. If (hypothetically) you get fired and you feel very sad, don’t keep it inside you. And don’t use the above quotes to depress it even deeper. Just let it be. Your are experiencing a storm! If this storm doesn’t make its way through your life, you lose all that experience. And our lives have all types of experiences.
Am I clear or did I confuse you?
Claro Senior Yannis! You are so cute!
I understand dear Yannis. Defenses are protection strategies in the survival mode that become part of a person when repeated, that repeat themselves unconsciously with time. For what was protection becomes at the end defenses that maintain a pattern, blocks the transformation process, etc … I totally agree with you Yannis that we have to let live as it is the storm, not defending in dominant or dominee way, blaming in a victim position or blaming in a attacker position, spiritualizing it or rationalizing it, etc … Just live the present moment and feel with mind, body and soul, in a living mode and not surviving mode. I am touched by your kindness and affection for me in telling me what was there in your hearth for me. And yes, all the time, vigilance, importance to stop and reflect in silence, in meditation, to experience … what is there as I write is the book of Paolo River Piedra and all the concept of the Other and Me … Defenses are of the domain of the “Other” and living and experiencing is in the domain of “Me” to develop, make it clear, be present to the experience.
What I expressed Yannis was in a way about that, but well writing posts, e-mail, trying to make it short, etc, may result in “gaps” or misunderstandings. I used in the past when I “lost” a relation or a relation was difficult to accuse the other, or accuse myself, (defenses), trying to find the fault in the other, in me, in the situation, in the World, etc (you can put here all the mechanisms of defenses elaborated by all the psychologists and psychiatrists of the World!!!! That was, and is again some times, the “Other” Johanne. Today, the “Other” tends to appear, I am now more capable of distinguishing between the Other and Me, and to go in depth of the situation, the meaning of the experience, not staying caught in the overall of the situation, etc … For me “live and let live” contains the concept of accepting (with joy and sadness at the same time) that I do not own the other’s soul. For me, we are all unique and there for a sole purpose and a universe purpose.
Someone told me, “When you are a first grader, you have a teacher. You change grade, you change teacher. You cannot be at the University and still have the first grade teacher, for she does not possess what you need to learn”. I then go and continue with that University Teacher not forgetting in my hearth, the first grader teacher, an affection, a souvenir that is good, a sadness to having to let her there and pursue, a joy of being now with the University teacher.
I will stop there. I hope I did not confuse you either! You know I find it hard sometimes to put in words what is there inside me. So clear to me, inside me, but when it comes out of me, well, tends to make others sometimes well … they find me complicated. But it is so simple inside me … As for the quote, today, after all the inner fighting with me “demons”, my “Other”, where I am today is in a space where I now understand that being alone does not mean I am alone, and being with one does not mean for life, that I have to live with the Other that is getting weaker and weaker, but has to attend school, spiritual school, Universal school. As a “pelerin”, I walk my path …
With deep affection, Jojo.
it is less of ownership and more of companionship, with gtatitude !
love
aditya
You have a strong point! But (always a but :)) I make choices, but who geave me the options? I didn’t choose to be hungry or to be in a hurry or to die. It could be a sort of companionship with myself. There is still a part of human that’s led by something, somebody,.. call it a God or whatever, but I still think i don’t own myself (at least partially) as I also can’t own anybody else.
I belive we make our own life, but still one can’t have all the options in the world, so , … we make choices that we can, in the part of the world where we live.
Someone told that when you fall in love, if you want to make it work, you have to give up one part of yourself, it’s called compromis, so again you don’t own entire yourself, … Theese examples I’m not considering as something bad, it’s usually good, but finally, …. you make a deal with yourself and enjoy life being a frind to people including yourself.
I have a feeling I got it a little complicated, so i will stop at this point, because finally i won’t know what I wanted to say :D
love to all
ivana
Hi Aditya, thank you for your response.
Illusions!! You are right: The problem is that we don’t see the ‘illusionary’, transient state of things and we long for permanence, as you say and I agree. But it is not our temporal personality, blinded by matter that … dreams. It is our Inner self who seeks ‘completeness’, wholeness and … peace and longs for Paradise, our Home. This eternal self of ours, who is the .. sparkle of Light in us, is the Point Zero, that makes us[me] feel ‘Strangers’.
‘…the ultimate soulmate is within you, and then you are one with all souls’. My sister tells me the same!! But I am different.. I cannot, yet accept that.. I still want, dream, long ..
‘DUM SPIRO SPERO’, as a weak human being, but at the same time, in my effort to be .. Super Human, I say as N. Kazantzakis says: I hope for nothing, I fear nothing, I AM FREE!!
One foot on Earth and one on Heaven!! In the middle, instead of the Abyss, the ‘dreamer’/me, puts all possibilities and ‘enjoys’ the Journey, even with … tears. Because we maybe feel ONE with others/all souls, but others still keep their.. boundaries, EGO.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
dream on dear thelma ! and so long as u enjoy it, it does not become a nighmare it is quite OK, they very thing, the purpouse for your present ‘avtaar’, i liked this quote attributed to our ex prez and a much loved soul abdul kalam “a dream is not what we see when we are asleep, a dream is one which does not let us sleep” ( incidently he too has read paulo’s books and felt inspired ( i read in some interview somewhere ).
others keep their boundary, their ego ! i am sure u must be feeling a compassion for them, for recahing the state where u can see u’r self in others and others in you, where u feel one with whole, is a painstaking, laborious process, one needs to pass through so much emotinal fire, u won’t wish it on your loved once, and u will wish it also for them. such is life.
love
aditya
Dreams are our … FUTURE! It is our .. creation, our DEMIOURGIA {Δημιουργία] using our Creative Fantasy together with our WILL.
This is : HIS will and our Will and … creating Karma. This is not .. dreaming ‘asleep’, as you put it, but our DESIRES becoming REALITY.
Feeling One with others, while at the same time others live into their own ‘shell’ -Hell or Heaven- is as you put it ‘emotional fire’, but maybe this is the way we are transformed into .. GOLD, the Alchemists. For that we need the answer from Paulo Coelho!!!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Thank you . Love your reply.
Nikky
(Alexandra)
wow!! i liked this “patience across lives for a moment of togetherness!”..thank you Aditya
annie U !!! are right as always
well mostly !!
;O))))) ( that is the beard i don’t have )
love
aditya
annie have some merci on poor yourself, being selfish is sinful only when it’s my interest over someone else’s. if i just work for my interest and it helps others too, then nothing wrong in being slefish !! right
love
aditya
Unfortunately, I have a fever right now, Annie. But, somewhere here in this blog, I comment the word “selfish”. If you are interested, you can find my comments with Ctrl+F.
But, surely, I have a positive opinion about being selfish, provided you stay near YOUR “gold cut”…
i laughed dear Pandora..thank you so much!!!
Dear Laucian
Thanks for sharing the poem amd your translation. Good one.
Dear Aditya,
True, we have to bve consicous of our knowledge.
Love,
Laxmi
Thanks Aditya! I agree… it’s not like we don’t know what should be done, it is whether we can do it when the moment comes.
Thank you dear Emi and dear Laxmi..
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
I know and I get that. I like to just “be” too but I want to know if our lives are headed for the same path. I deserve to know as a human. I want certain things out of life and if his plan isn’t the same as mine, I should know.
Wonderful! Thank you!
I think that the objective of a quote shouldn’t be to free someone from his pain, but to help him realize his pain and thus become free by himself, by his own struggle…
With Love,
Yannis
From my behalf, I didn’t receive any judgement or cruelty from you, Annie, so I believe there is nothing to apologize for.
Anyway, yes, if someone suffers and his body cannot endure the hardship, then death comes inevitably. But still, if you feel sad for your reasons, don’t accuse yourself for that. You already have your own burden to cope with. You feel WHAT you feel. And you don’t own to anyone an excuse for your felings. If you don’t let your feelings be, it’s like refusing to a part of your existnce to exist.
Dear Laxmi,
I have the answer in my brain, but I want to avoid being misunderstood or sound cynical.
Anyway, the closest persons I lost in my life were my grandmother and my aunt (my mother’s sister and mother). I cried for both but deep inside I cried for myself.
Losing your father however, I think it is different. Children have a totally profound connection with their parents, since it’s their first relationship in the world.
In my opinion, even when you realised that you were crying for yourself, let it be. Your feelings are precious and they deserve to exist. Your are not selfish, when you cry for yourself. And you don’t own any excuse to anyone for that.
Now, I don’t mean to sound harsh, but even when you cried for the pain of your mother, in my opinion always, I still think that these were YOUR emotions that you were coping with. Your mother’s pain just brought them up.
My mother was really distressed with the loss of her sister and her mother. I was feeling bad for her, but deep inside it was my own feelings that were bringing tears to me. When I cried…and cried, I no longer was influenced by my mother’s grief. I was realizing her pain, but my own part was solved for that specific event…
Please, write to me back, in case there is any point that could sound weird.
With Love,
Yannis
HI Laxami,
yannis has given a beautiful try, ultimately it’s our own feelings ( for persons who are dead or living ) which brings tears to our eyes ! tears are always good whether out of sadness or joy, they wash away the sadness and irrigate the budding plant of joy.
But i understand your ‘feelings’, even while facing hardships it is much ‘easier’ to handle emotional and physical traumas when we are afced with them, ourselves. Seeing your ‘own’ in pain is a greater pain than seeing yourself in pain. that is how it is, and it’s a good sign, it indicates a selfless spirit. But teh goodness ends there. This pain of seeing our own in pain and being pained by it is what is called ‘moha’ in sciptures, one of teh root causes of bondage, the other one is more ‘revolting’ ‘mamata’ the feeling mothers have for their children, but more about mamata later. Let’s see why moha is a cause for bondage.
I don’t know how much of an indian u are, but i assume u’r parents were fully indian, an indian marriage used to be for life, and marriages happned at young age, loosing one’s husband or one’s wife in the fag end of one’s life is a big blow. I can feel the pain. Seeing her in pain u also are pained. But look at it this way, can u do something to alleviate that pain, make her forget it for some time, then do it, otherwise what is teh point in making two souls sad when only one was sad earlier. greatest would be if u could tell her the same thing, that moha causes pain, moha for the person, for maintaiing or obtaining a certain situation in life, moha for this or that. having said this, escaping pain is not the fundamental goal, embracing it like a wol and then going beyond pain may be.
love
aditya
Let’s try to re-phrase it.
You do not own yourself. You ARE yourself. All the small cells, all the chemical reactions inside you, all your feelings, which sometimes tell to your brain that 1+1=4 and not “2″ (Love, for example).
Concerning our Divine part, I don’t have a clear opinion so far. But, what I do believe is that when we start discussing about God, words lose their meaning. There is no ownership. Even the words “good” and “bad” somehow cease to exist.
‘I kmow one thing, that I know nothing’. Socrates.
¨Εν οίδα, ότι ουδέν οίδα.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
;-)
thanks
love
aditya
just as i ‘know’ everything else ! dear annie
love
aditya
I am amazed that no one seems jealous over here, except me…lol
Maybe I am the only posesive .Still, I love so much my freedom.
Thanks Laxmi :D
Dear Adyta …
For me, I believe and truly believe that God wants me to be happy and successful, but not on the basis of the way society views success. Since I followed my dream, let me tell you, each day I face the possibility of selling my house, of living each day with the possibility of not having enough money to come up to my financial responsibilities, but at the same time I feel “rich” and I have faith that the Universe is participating with me to help me in making my mission and vocation successful and at the same time having what is “necessary” for me, or what for today I consider necessary and legitimate. From a wowan that used to drive Cadillac, Mercedes, today I have a car that is common, and I am so happy! So, the mark of the car is secondary, because the primary need was the need to transport myself, to pay less gas so to put more in my dream, and as I drive that car I am full, in abundance, rich “inside”. Because for me the important thing is pursuing my dream and not having to put more stress on me, or this or that to have that, since my need is only to transport me from a point to another, is being happy with what I have and yes, I hope to be able to keep it all, but again am ready to make changes because I know that I can transform any habitation into a “havre de paix”. For my dream, there is a time to put the seed in the soil, and to be able to stay there and wait (patience) because only water and sun can help that seed get out of the soil and become a little plant. And I am there, taking care of it, protecting it with a little fence, getting out all the other herbs that could invade it, etc, and I am still there waiting for the fruits, (not eating, not having revenues, pursuing in putting other seeds in the soil) but still I know that I can all with God, faith, and I pursue, faith, patience, and one day the fruit is there and I can take it. I feel rich inside, am opened to what is essential for me. I suddenly think of Jesus who carried the cross and accepted to “loose” his relations to his family, friends, to his “popularity”, be judged, etc, in order to accomplish his mission and at the end gaining more than he had before. I think of Job who lost everything (material and family) and then gained more than he had (more material and a new family). So, in pursuing a dream, there is a time in which there is no food and where there is food, where there is sun and where there is night, etc … so yes contradictions again, but then all of that to gain what we cannot imagine, because the “ways of God and thinking of God is not possible to comprehend with rational mind”. With affection, Jojo.
Dear Yannis,
yes the pain maybe mine whatever the reason i am feeling for pain on my behalf or my mothers..but my point was that at one point i realized it was not my “loss” but that still doesn’t stop the pain.
I had a life ahead of me , a child , a husband, a career (in order of importance ;) ) and could be occupied by it 95% of my time . But for my mother her life revolved around my father and to see her lost for a little while was very difficult…..it’s a feeling when you are powerless to do anything..It’s an instinct to try and protect your loved ones..call it ‘Moha’ or anything as Adita says, but it’s a undeniably strong emotion.
Thanks for being considerate when stating your opinion that it may sound harsh but your intention isn’t.
love,
Laxmi
Dear Aditya,
Moha is like a on-off thing – you have to go through it and come out ..and get back in and come out again..until i guess you have been through the cycle many times that when the ‘next’ situation comes you are able to break the cycle.
But as you said in earlier posts we have the knowledge but we need to remember it and use it all the time and that’s where the issue arises.
Anyway, I’m curious about ‘mamata’ and why it’s revolting…
love,
Laxmi
P.S. – I am 100% human , next i’m 100% woman and then 100% Indian(i.e in nationality and upbringing)
The 2 ,Aditya , the 2 are accurate :
I know that I know nothing , and I know this
( more we advance in the knowledge and Life , as in a funnel entry by the small end – , wider is the side of the funnel into the progress of our path of Life: the knowledge and learning of Life are made on this wisdom )
Okay, once more I have to correct myself.;-)
I am a real Buddha. – Sometimes I am an ignorant fool, sometimes I am wise and sometimes I feel at least awakened.
Thank you for the clearing, dear aditya!
Oh dearest beautiful Swannie,” And I know that, you know that I know that you know one thing, that you know nothing!! ;o)
Mamma is always here… knowing nothing!!! And saying what Tarek, has just taught us, ‘Normal people are . boring’ Carl Jung!! For sure, you and I are not boring…
So that I will not have to go to the Steinway music.. I was so excited today that I found the link! I had written a letter to ask about .. prices for a baby-grand, and in their answering letter it was the link. All the pieces and pianists are magnificent.. I am now on number 62!!! Marta Argerich, Alfred Brendel, Michelangeli… I almost did not get up from my chair since this morning!! You see I have the headphones ….
Now I ‘know’ next .. life I am not going to leave my piano for nothing and … no one!!;-]
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Annie, Swannie you are .. just spoiling me!! Imagine if you and me were … really mother and daughter in a house playing music all the time… well somebody else would have been the … father.. You ‘know’ my family do not like classical music; or maybe do not like me dealing with .. non .. domestic … ;-] So in .. return I hate … cooking!!
Martha Argerich had won first prize in the Chopin Competition when I was in Vienna and everybody was talking about her! She is very beautiful…
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Dear turtle dews,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steinway_&_Sons
So will Annie get to play on your Steinway when she visits? Is it like a Stradivarius in violins? And last, will Annie get a ride in your Mercedes Benz? Thelma, I love your expensive style!
Love and hugs,
Heart
Dear Heart, when I was still studying my .. proud father was really thinking of buying me a Steinway.. Then .. disaster came.. Now I am still .. dreaming.. Since we live in a flat I do not think that I have enough space even if I had the money! But still, I was curious to see the .. prices..
In Cyprus there is almost no public transport.. So everyone owes a car and … now our streets and parking places are not enough!!
Of course Swannie is going to go around with her … Mamma when she comes to Cyprus, so is … Pandora and you and .. Paulo Coelho and Paul. You must not … worry of my driving skills! I drive since I was 18 years old.. Of course, my … car does not know the .. way to Troodos mountains!!
Oh dearest Heart, my father was .. distressed for my .. expensive ..tastes!! But I am .. wise, I only buy what I cannot afford things, maybe with … 40 years delay!!! Just to … keep desiring and dreaming!!!! Feed the … material World!!! Remember one foot on the Earth and the other on the … CLOUDS!! And in between our .. Free Will, not the .. Abyss!!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
I only buy what I CAN afford, maybe with … 40 years delay!!! Just to … keep desiring and dreaming!!!!
Sorry wrong …expressing and writing..
T. x
I just noticed the Steinways are handmade, and thought this means the instrument must have more of a soul than any machine produced pianos. It’s good always to have unfulfilled dreams. They keep us going. Hope you get your Steinway before you die!!!!!
Never doubted you are sensible with $$$, you are sensible with EVERYTHING.
Love and Admiration,
Heart
xxx
Thank You for saying that. I appreaciate it. Dogs chained indeed remind me of people who need to control.
And I guess I am like Your father, a bit.
Love,
Liina
I agree with you because I believe in essence it is a law of nature.
Hi Maria,
First of all, the word “lose” or “lost” is mostly used here to help us communicate, rather than to declare ownership over someone else.
When a former girlfriend abandon me, I cried because I wouldn’t be with her anyomore. No ownership entailed. The reasons were quite different.
However, it is extremely difficult for me to answer directly to your questions (being abandoned?, being betrayed?), since it is logic that gives these answer, but at that period of my life emotions were dominating my reality.
But, I don’t see why I should continue to love someone that abandon me.
Perhaps what you ask me above implies that 1+1=2; and this is logic. But when feelings speak and make calculations, 1+1 is never “2″. It is everything else, but “2″.
PS: Your post took me a lot of time to “decode” it and be able to answer it the way I felt. I would like to ask you to rephrase it in any way you wish and re-write to me, because there are more underneath that I want to understand and clarify.
Βρε Μαρακι…Ελληνιδα εισαι;
Μα καλα, απο που φανηκε οτι προσβληθηκα; Καθολου δεν συνεβη αυτο, παντως! Κι απο τη στιγμη που το μνμ (μηνυμα) σου δεν ηταν προσβλητικο, εαν το πηρα εγω στραβα, ειναι δικο μου προβλημα και δεν χρειαζεται εσυ να ζητας συγνωμη.
Ο,τι εγραψα, το εγραψα γιατι το εννοουσα. Οντως, πολλες λεξεις που χρησιμοποιουμε, το κανουμε για να συννενοηθουμε. Κατ’εμε, καλα τα λεει ο Κοελο, κατα καποιο τροπο, γιατι οντως η λεξη “ιδιοκτησια” μπορει να ειναι για να συζηταμε εδω. Ο καθενας βεβαια χρησιμοποιει λεξεις και εκφρασεις, οπως το αισθανεται.
Πισω στα μνμ σου: το ξερω οτι δεν εννοουσες εμενα, αλλα ηταν πολυ καλη ευκαιρια να χρησιμοποιησω κατι δικο μου (που δεν με νοιαζει αλλωστε), για να φτασω σε ενα συμπερασμα. Επισης, εσυ δεν εισαι καθολου υποχρεωμενη να ανοιξεις την καρδια σου σε κανεναν μας, αν δεν αισθανεσαι ανετα (τα καλα του ιντερνετ).
Οταν εγραψα “decoded” ειναι παλι ελληνικη εκφραση και τωρα προφανως καταλαβαινεις οτι ηταν δικο μου σχημα λογου αυτη τη φορα. Απλα διαβαζοντας και ξαναδιαβαζοντας το μνμ σου, αισθανομουν πως δεν μπορουσα να συντονιστω καθολου με αυτα που εγραφες και να δωσω μια απαντηση της προκοπης – πιθανον και για αυτο να παρεξηγηθηκε το μνμ μου. Ε…συμβαινει αυτο καμια φορα.
Και οταν εγραψα οτι υπαρχουν “περισσοτερα απο οτι καταλαβα”, αισθανομουν πως ειχα χασει το νοημα και πιθανον να επρεπε να επανατοποθετηθεις με αλλον τροπο, αν δεν σου εκανε κοπο βεβαια, ωστε να καταλαβω τι εννοουσες.
Πιστευω να τα βρηκαμε τωρα. Καλο Σαβ/κο και χαρηκα πραγματικα…
ΥΓ #1: παντως το πιστευω αυτο που ειπα πως δεν βλεπω τον λογο γιατι θα πρεπει να συνεχισω να αγαπαω καποια που με εγκατελειψε…
ΥΓ #2: οταν κανω κλικ στο ονομα σου (που φαινεται μπλε), δεν με βγαζει πουθενα. Νομιζω πως θα επρεπε, λογω χρωματος.
Ωραια! Για να δω πως θα το γραψω τωρα…
Νομιζω πως οταν κλαιμε, το λογια χανουν την υποσταση τους, γιατι οπως σου ειχα γραψει, τα λογια ειναι της λογικης, που λεει 1+1=2. Στο κλαμα μας ομως κυριαρχει το συναισθημα, που λεει συνηθως 1+1=7 ή κατι αλλο ασχετο.
Ωστοσο, μας βοηθαει πιστευω να ονομαζουμε το συναισθημα, ωστε να προχωρησουμε παρακατω και τελικα να φτασουμε στη ριζα του προβληματος μας. Γιατι ειναι λογικο, πως π.χ. για να αυτοκτονησει καποιος/α απο εγκαταλειψη απο το ταιρι του, προφανως εχει πολυ σημαντικα και αλυτα εσωτερικα προβληματα, ασχετα και ταυτοχρονα συνδεδεμενα με το εδω και τωρα της εγκαταλειψης. Τωρα παμε βεβαια σε ενα πολυ “βαρυ” κομματι της ψυχολογιας, οποτε αφηνω την περαιτερω αναλυση του.
Η εννοια “κτητικοτητα” ειναι αρκετα πολυπλοκη. Απο τα υλικα πραγματα που μας ανηκουν και μπορει να τα εξαφανισει ενας σεισμος ή ενα τσουναμι, μεχρι ενα ατομο που ειναι ο εραστης/ερωμενη μας και μπορει οποτε το αποφασισει να φυγει.
Θα πω το εξης απλο: νιωσε Ο,ΤΙ αισθανθεις ΣΤΟ ΒΑΘΜΟ που το αισθανεσαι, ΤΗ ΣΤΙΓΜΗ που το αισθανεσαι. Και ΜΗΝ ΝΙΩΘΕΙΣ ΤΥΨΕΙΣ αν σε αλλους ακουγεται περιεργο, γιατι αυτο ειναι το συναισθημα σου για την “Α” κατασταση και αυτο ΕΙΝΑΙ να νιωσεις. Ολες οι λογικες εξηγησεις και διαιολογιες το μονο που κανουν ειναι να τα κανουν χειροτερα ή να κρυβουν ΠΡΟΣΚΑΙΡΑ το συναισθημα.
Ολοι μας θελουμε να ανηκουμε σε καποιον; (κατι δεν μου κολλαει, αλλα σαφη αποψη δεν εχω)(Πολλες φορες καποια πραγματα δεν μου κανουν κλικ, αλλα η λογικη απαντηση αργει να μου ερθει, οποτε το ερωτηματικο, ειναι η συναισθηματικη μου απαντηση, εστω και αρνητικη).
Παντως μια και το ειπες, νομιζω πως μας ριχνετε σε ποσοστο οι γυναικες στο blog αυτο.
Στην συγκεκριμενη φαση με εκεινη την κοπελα, ημουν συναισθηματικα ευαλωτος οντως και ακομα επλαθα αρκετα πραγματα μεσα μου. Παντως, επειδη ξερω πως μου φερθηκε, δεν εχω κανενα λογο να θελω κατι καλο για αυτην ή να συνεχισω να την αγαπαω. Στην αρχη ηθελα και το κακο της. Τωρα μαλλον δεν ασχολουμαι (δεν προσβληθηκα-σε προλαβαινω. Πιο πολυ απανταω στο παραπανω). Τωρα οι λεξεις “καψουρα” ή “λαγνεια” προς ενα ατομο αν και ειναι δυνατες-σεξουαλικες, αναρωτιεμαι και αμφισβητω πολυ πλεον την αξια τους και τον λογο υπαρξης τους.
Το σχημα που εχεις αριστερα απο το ονομα σου και ειναι ενα γραμμικο σχεδιο χρωματος μπλε, μαλλον επιλεγεται απο το συστημα τυχαια (εγω εχω ενα πρασινο, ας πουμε). ΟΜΩΣ…οταν το ιδιο το ονομα ειναι μπλε, τοτε οταν κανεις κλικ επανω, σε βγαζει σε σελιδα, που, υποπτευομαι, την οριζει καθε φορα ο χρηστης και οχι το site του Κοελο. Μια, μαλιστα, ηθοποιος που γραφει εδω και την λενε Carolena Sabah, αν πατησεις το ονομα της σε βγαζει στο myspace νομιζω, οπου εχει καποια στοιχεια της (μπορεις να το δοκιμασεις). Εγω καποια στιγμη ηθελα να ανεβασω μια φωτογραφια, αλλα πρεπει να κανω μια εγγραφη στο avatar και βαριομουν αν ανοιγω παλι λογαριασμους.
Τα λεμε απο βδομαδα με το νεο θεμα του Κοελο…
Να εισαι καλα…
:-) thanks
love
aditya
thanks jojo
do yopu have an english version copy of the book you mentioned?
Precious, I do not know if an English version exists of that book of Candide Moix. Sorry. Jojo.
Can one say that ‘detachment’ is a way of not letting desires drive you, but for you to drive desire? That is, the ability to choose which desires are important or necessary (may be part of your dreams), and not be caught in the flow of random wishes and desires (which may be society’s standards)?
“We’re not owners here.
We’re just passing through.”
the character of Denys Hatton in “Out of Africa”
My beautiful Pandora, you with Ibn Arabi’s poem, have said everything in three lines.. Thank you.
My ideal : THE Spiritual Lover possesses both SPIRIT and BODY !
We are Spirits living in bodies. He, who would ‘possess’ my spirit would be the … Eternal Lover and this love is not ‘prison’ but Paradise on Earth.
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
It does have to be with EVERY “tom, dick or harry” that comes along. The point is that most married people, according to statistics, do have at least one, if not more, of these “flings” at some point during their married lives. When we pretend that this isn’t the case – that the majority of people are actually fully and completely monogamous – we are but only fooling ourselves into believing some fairytale. I’m not talking about fairytale marriages – I’m talking about dealing with reality in such a way that the marriage can actually survive and continue unharmed.
Of course, if one prefers they can be an ostrich – stick their head in the sand and pretend that this doesn’t happen or isn’t happening – until one day their spouse gets tired of being married to an ostrich.
You are not … Heart!!??
So you have put your … heart in your name and lost it!!
I am joking.
Whose heart is not there? Have you lost it in Eros’s battle?
Are you ‘in love’ with a heartless creature??
Remember: DUM SPIRO SPERO!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
Hi Heart! Nice to meet another heart :)
No one can “steal” trust from you. The point is what are you “trusting” this person to do? If I am with someone, I trust them to be true not to a written contract or a ring, but to themselves. If I were with someone is a committed relationship, I would trust them to do one of two things: If the fling were truly insignificant, to be sure that I or any of our mutual friends never found out about it, OR, if it were significant (in other words, if they were falling in love with this other person) to be sure that they did inform me immediately, so I would have the option of acting on this information. I really think, if I were in a lifelong relationship and I trusted the other person never ever to have any emotional or sexual interest in another person for their entire life, my expectations would be wholly unreasonable. I would be trusting in what is virtually impossible, and possibly not even healthy.
Indeed, it is my favorite movie of all time. When I watch it, I can virtually speak along with the characters, as I have many of their lines memorized by heart. If you get a chance, do see it.
Love,
Savita
Just to go with the flow here, and not intented personally to comment your comment dear Daniel, I put myself in here. For me, I view it also this way. I think that having an affair pertains in some cases to being attracted to parts of oneself that we have difficulty being with or long for. For example (taken from my experience and another person’s experience), in a relation all is there, mostly affective security, a structure, etc … but then spontaneity, pleasure get lost in the day to day basis because of x, y and z reason. Then, a person comes and suddenly the spontaneity, liberty, pleasure get awaken because that is what the other person is funny, not responsible in moments, not afraid, etc … attraction … projection … and then you find out that well it is not more or less the other side, that you need both … that you need to unite parts of yourself that you projected on others … so, today, before going the other side, or when I feel attraction, I try to observe if there is something of me over there that the other owns that I do not own and have to recuperate to become a whole. Cordially, Jojo.
Dear Savita
I don’t understand your response, or your point. Unfaithfulness is different to agreeing to living in an open marriage.
It is down to the couple concerned (or how ever many want to be involved in their relationship).
Turning a blind eye to indiscretions, is another form of permission, two ostrichs deserve each other.
Love
Pandora
Pandora
Dear Savita,
If someone truly belives that monogamy is impossible and thinks a insignificant hour here and tehre with someoneelse is ok should be openly telling friends and everyone what they did—not hide it.
You hide it only because you do not truly beleive in it and in deep in the heart know that it is wrong.
How many men and women have been thus ‘cheated’ and felt pain – it is universal this sense of betrayal. If these people were told by their partner not to expect fidelity then i bet you , there will be no pain. Because honesty has a power.
love,
Laxmi
P.S. I will never argue on the point whether humans are capable of monogamous relationships or not….but i will argue that if you truly love somebody then honesty is part of the deal.
dearest Yanni,
the last thing i wanted is to offend you, i am really sorry if i did in any way. i used the words lost, lose and maybe in greek sounds or it become with another meaning.
Definitely i wasn’t talking about ownership.
I used “you” but i wasn’t reffering to you but in general as an example i was hypothetically speaking in a certain situation. Please don’t take it personally i tried maybe i shouldn’t be familiar. Iam sorry again
which part you couldn’t decoded?
There is more but do you mean?
i didin’t know your personal story how could i? i used betrayed and other in order describe a situation words we usually use in our country.
By the way i was abandonded too and betrayed perhaps you could say i speak based from my experiences.
Ελληνίδα Γιάννη, ελληνίδα …..εχουμε ανταλλάξει απόψεις και άλλη φορά τότε ήμουν απλά Μαρία (η ιστορια με το Μανταμάδο) αλλά το κομπιούτερ χάλασε και στέλνω τώρα από ου αδερφου μου και επειδή είναι και αλλες 4 Μαρίες είπα να το κάνω maria-dove για να ξεχωριζω.
Είπα κάτι απλό στην ουσία όταν χανουμε κάποιον για οποιοδήποτε λόγο από τη ζωή μας, δεν σημαίνει ότι τον “χασαμε” για πάντα η αγάπη που νιώσαμε, τα αισθήματα που μοιραστήκαμε είναι κοντά μας αυτά δεν μπορεί να μας τα πάρει κανείς απλά ο “άλλος” δεν επωφελείται από αυτά.
Όταν κλαίμε και πονάμε για την απώλεια δεν είναι ούτε για την “εγκατάλειψη”, ούτε για τη “προδοσία”, ούτε για κανένα άλλο λόγο παρά για το ότι στην ουσία χάσαμε ένα κομμάτι του εαυτού μας , των προσδοκιών μας της ψυχής μας που δεν μπορεί ποτέ να αναπληρωθεί.
Έκανα αποτυχημένο λογοπαίγνιο ότι για να χάσεις κάτι πρέπει πρώτα να το έχεις αλλιώς τι έχασες?
Ο έρωτας σημαίνει να δίνεσαι χωρίς να υπολογίζεις το μετά, τις συνέπειες άρα αφού εσύ δίνεσαι και ο άλλος δίνεται υπάρχει δόσιμο, αυτοπάραδοση όχι κατοχή (άτιμα αγγλικα….).
Ο έρωτας εμπεριέχει κάποιας φύσεως κτητικότητα στο βαθμό που είναι απαραίτητο για να υπάρχει αλλά σε καμία περίπτωση δεν μας ανήκει ή ανήκουμε σε κάποιον με την έννοια της ιδιοκτησίας.
Επομένως και για να μην σε ζαλίζω όταν οικειοθελώς παραδιδόμαστε αμφότεροι χάρη του έρωτα είναι θεμιτό να αισθανθούμε ότι κάποιος/καποια μας ανήκει με την έννοια που εξήγησα παραπάνω και όχι της ιδιοκτησίας, αλλιώς δεν είναι έρωτας.Όλοι κατά βάθος θέλουμε να ανήκουμε σε κάποιον,όλοι αναζητούμε το άλλο μας μισό και από όσο ξέρω εκτός από μένα κανείς δεν βαρέθηκε τον έρωτα.
Το συγκριμένο σχόλιο της εβδομάδας το βρήκα λίγο βαρετό και δήθεν όλοι είναι τόσο ανώτεροι στη θεωρία και όχι στη πράξη και ιδίως οι γυναίκες.
Όσο για το αν πρέπει να αγαπάς αυτή/αυτόν που σε εγκατέλειψε?
Λοιπόν αν την αγαπουσες και δεν ήσουν απλά ερωτευμένος θα πρέπει και αφού χωρίσατε να εξακολουθείς να θέλεις λογικα, να είναι καλά, υγιής κλπ δεν εννοώ να την αγαπάς όπως στη σχέση και ενώ σε έχει εγκαταλείψει διαφορετικά είναι σημαδι συναισθηματικής ανωριμότητας ή αλλιώς καψούρα δηλαδή κατώτερο πράγμα από την αγάπη.
Όσο για το όνομα που λες όντως το δοκίμασα και εγώ και έχεις δίκιο αλλά δεν έχω ιδέα λες να κάνω καμιά βλακεία με το σύστημα και δεν το έχω καταλάβει.
Υ.Γ 1Μου είσαι πολύ συμπαθής (πρόσεχε δεν στην πέφτω) και νόμιζα ότι προσβλήθηκες λίγο για αυτό και έσπευσα να επανορθώσω και ανακουφίστηκα που τελικά δεν συνέβη. Καλό ΣΚ και επισήμως τα βρήκαμε (χιούμορ).
Υ.Γ2 Αχ τι ωραία τα γράφω στα ελληνικά,το ευχαριστήθηκα πρέπει να σου πω ότι έχω πολύ χιούμορ αλλά αυτό φοβάμαι δεν φαίνεται στα αγγλικά.
Φιλιά
Αλήθεια Γιάννη ξέρεις γιατί έχουμε ο καθένας διαφορετικό χρώμα και αν αυτό σημαίνει κάτι? Διαφώτισε με γιατί είμαι κανούργια στο site
και θα ήθελα να καταλάβω κάποια πράγματα.
Lol. Today I found a wonderful song video, Woodpecker song by Wil.
Lovely
I like very much yours thougyh
Without You, Swannie, we are nothing!
LOVE,
Thelma xxx
You too are great dear Annie. One of the best!!!
Love your posts and your kind way of being.
Take care
Love
Alexandra
i have to say im agreeing with you also Annie –
was it ever ‘ours’ in the first case!?
;o)
I am deluded because I’m torn between two ideas: that love between two people is something they possess together; and the idea that the entire concept of “I” “me” “mine” “ours” is completely ridiculous. The head and the heart again I guess, living side by side. The head full of ideas and thoughts is always the one that tries to make excuses for possession and domination, lucky the heart is so subtle in it’s own knowledge, otherwise there would be a raging battle!
I am thinking of it this way: some birds – doves, geese, eagles, swans, for example – do mate for life, but they don’t refer to “contracts of ownership” in this matter – they mate for life, ONE DAY AT A TIME. They return to same partner, some to the same nesting ground or even the same nest, over and over again, year after year. That return IS their proof of commitment, the PROOF of their mutual bond. They don’t return because they HAVE TO. They COOSE to return – they make that choice, without coercion, of their own free will. That, I think, is miraculous. That, I believe, is love.
Yes, someone could make the argument that this is not love at all but merely instinct. It doesn’t matter. To me, it still stands as an example of what a “lifelong commitment” should be: a free choice made over and over again, season by season, day by day, hour by hour.
This is as it should be, I think, with soul mates.
the guru says: black or white. One is the absence of colors (white, it reflects all) and the other is the presence of colors (black, it absorbs all ). The guru says that the person in question love limits.
Have you ever heard of the story [true historical] of the Duchess of Devon’s life experinence?
well… the recent film The Duchess illuminated the tangled web of an infamous trio scenario in the 18th century.
i can’t quite imagine anything similar occuring ‘today’… but then reality can be strange at times.
Thank you Annie, swan, for reminding me .. It seems that together with Love we need the …LEAP of FAITH!!!! ;-]
LOVE,
Thelma xxxx
yes, I agree with you Savita, in reality, often, if you look closely, I think that is how it is.
Good day Laxmi,
I like the analogy of loss as “chipping away on a stone to create a sculpture.” I don’t recall which artist first said that the sculpture was already complete. The artist just removes the excess.
The point of the quote about not ever owning another person is valid. But I wonder, do we have any ownership over a relationship either? When we break it down I wonder what we actually “own” at all.
Cordially,
Marko
Your Welcome Thelma and thanks for the reply.
I hope that our wounds have turned to scars at least. I don’t know if we learn from the loss of innocence in the same way as other losses. There is no second time unless we experience amnesia. We certainly do learn to love more deeply knowing that it doesn’t need to be sad when one or both move on.
Disturbed? Paulo’s books always stir me up. This is why I enjoy them. I could claim “stimulated” but that really isn’t honest though it is part of it. Brida probably just stirred up some forgotten memories. Back in the 1990′s most of the people I knew were Wiccans. I even had a little bag of Rune stones that I learned to read. I even knew a girl named “Brita” which is probably why I misspelled the title. This was a different island but once again Paulo’s stories are full of magical coincidences.
Thank you,
Marko
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