Comments on: Minarets and Slender Arguments http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/ updated on Monday, Wednesday, Friday Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:38:08 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Liliana http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-/#comment-532270 Liliana Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:22:33 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-532270 "But how many of us know that there are only four minarets in Switzerland — for a population of 400,000 Muslims?"  This is totally untrue!! In CH there are 140 mosques from which only 4 have minaret, minaret which is not essential to be a good Muslim. You should know better than many that the faith comes from inside and not from the simbolic tower either minaret or the bell tower. As you have the enormous responsability of you words, so many people follow you, please make sure to check your sources, thanks. “But how many of us know that there are only four minarets in Switzerland — for a population of 400,000 Muslims?” 
This is totally untrue!! In CH there are 140 mosques from which only 4 have minaret, minaret which is not essential to be a good Muslim. You should know better than many that the faith comes from inside and not from the simbolic tower either minaret or the bell tower. As you have the enormous responsability of you words, so many people follow you, please make sure to check your sources, thanks.

]]> By: Theresa Goubran-Keshta http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-/#comment-532130 Theresa Goubran-Keshta Sat, 12 Dec 2009 01:39:48 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-532130 Miracles do happen! "Peace on Earth, and Goodwill to all men, Alleluia!" Miracles do happen!

“Peace on Earth, and Goodwill to all men, Alleluia!”

]]> By: Tarek http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531997 Tarek Fri, 11 Dec 2009 14:06:02 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531997 Dear Rs, I don't think that anybody here is confusing mosques with minaret! Actually for this very reason nobody is understanding the ban. Obviously Architect is not the cause (mosques are usually build outside the cities) beside the campaign for the ban was so offensive (see Pandoras comment above). Or is it like Christiane Schlötzer in the "Sueddeutsche Zeitung" wrote (1.12.09) "For some only invisible foreigner is a good foreigner?" And NO nobody is labeling swiss as racists! I've been in Switzerland several times and I have lots of swiss friends and I know how lovely the people are.. It is only that this atmosphere of fear and distrust building that is used by politicians from BOTH sides is so silly but very dangerous and have to stop. Love from Vienna. Dear Rs,
I don’t think that anybody here is confusing mosques with minaret! Actually for this very reason nobody is understanding the ban.
Obviously Architect is not the cause (mosques are usually build outside the cities) beside the campaign for the ban was so offensive (see Pandoras comment above). Or is it like Christiane Schlötzer in the “Sueddeutsche Zeitung” wrote (1.12.09) “For some only invisible foreigner is a good foreigner?”
And NO nobody is labeling swiss as racists! I’ve been in Switzerland several times and I have lots of swiss friends and I know how lovely the people are..
It is only that this atmosphere of fear and distrust building that is used by politicians from BOTH sides is so silly but very dangerous and have to stop.
Love from Vienna.

]]> By: Pandora http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531984 Pandora Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:29:55 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531984 I am shocked to read this, and frankly horrified, have just found a link showing the poster you mention.... Speechless. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/29/swiss-ban-minarets-in-sur_n_373172.html I am shocked to read this, and frankly horrified, have just found a link showing the poster you mention….

Speechless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/29/swiss-ban-minarets-in-sur_n_373172.html

]]> By: Tarek http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531983 Tarek Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:27:38 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531983 Dear Hildegarde, Good question, and here what I personally think about it: Symbols are spontaneous manifestations of the "Collective" unconscious. I don't know if the products of the Personal unconscious can be called symbols or serve as collective symbols unless they are based on a deeper collective archetype.. Symbols can differ with time, yesterday's symbols lose their statue as symbols when the conscious stop being affected by the energy that they presented (but the active archetype will then use a new symbol to communicate with the conscious, like in dreams Today the car may take the role of old times horses). Symbols can differ (though slightly) according to the perceiving conscious mind, I said "slightly" because human conscious is a very new development and it did not differ much between different groups (we can see very similar redeemer or messiah character in almost all cultures) so as Joseph Campbell said it A Hero with a thousand faces. Love Tarek Dear Hildegarde,
Good question, and here what I personally think about it:
Symbols are spontaneous manifestations of the “Collective” unconscious. I don’t know if the products of the Personal unconscious can be called symbols or serve as collective symbols unless they are based on a deeper collective archetype..
Symbols can differ with time, yesterday’s symbols lose their statue as symbols when the conscious stop being affected by the energy that they presented (but the active archetype will then use a new symbol to communicate with the conscious, like in dreams Today the car may take the role of old times horses). Symbols can differ (though slightly) according to the perceiving conscious mind, I said “slightly” because human conscious is a very new development and it did not differ much between different groups (we can see very similar redeemer or messiah character in almost all cultures) so as Joseph Campbell said it A Hero with a thousand faces.
Love
Tarek

]]> By: Alexandra http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531980 Alexandra Fri, 11 Dec 2009 11:07:38 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531980 I dare say religion is seen by the way the worshipers behave, live the religion. If many of them are behaving in a strange way, or that cases are highlighted some will start to fear such symbols. And maybe that symbols are really not fit into certain style of architecture . But a solution could be found, there are always ways to please both of the parties. We have to work togheter for better understanding. All my love Alexandra I dare say religion is seen by the way the worshipers behave, live the religion. If many of them are behaving in a strange way, or that cases are highlighted some will start to fear such symbols. And maybe that symbols are really not fit into certain style of architecture . But a solution could be found, there are always ways to please both of the parties. We have to work togheter for better understanding.
All my love
Alexandra

]]> By: sonia maria dos santos http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531970 sonia maria dos santos Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:59:25 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531970 Parabens Paulo voce é um camepao,agora suas experiencias começam a contar,sou escritora mas pouco conhecida no Brasil,mas em 2005 falei de muitas aguas me afogando ,nos afogando ,estava certa hoje escrevo romances,quero lhe mandar nao sei como um romance quando ficar pronto Retratos de uma vida,voce vai gostar tenho certeza,escrevo em finas palavras ,finos capitulos mas a mensagem está lá,beijos Sonia Parabens Paulo voce é um camepao,agora suas experiencias começam
a contar,sou escritora mas pouco conhecida no Brasil,mas em 2005
falei de muitas aguas me afogando ,nos afogando ,estava certa
hoje escrevo romances,quero lhe mandar nao sei como um romance quando ficar pronto
Retratos de uma vida,voce vai gostar tenho certeza,escrevo em finas palavras ,finos capitulos mas a mensagem está lá,beijos
Sonia

]]> By: Clara http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531961 Clara Fri, 11 Dec 2009 09:04:28 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531961 Hi Gabi, everyone, yes, I also see the use of language is decisive. There is an excellent book named "Non-violent communication, a language of life" by Marshall B. Rosenberg, that I want to recommend, with Love & Respect, Clara Hi Gabi, everyone, yes, I also see the use of language is decisive. There is an excellent book named “Non-violent communication, a language of life” by Marshall B. Rosenberg, that I want to recommend, with Love & Respect, Clara

]]> By: elaine http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531954 elaine Fri, 11 Dec 2009 06:18:38 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531954 Hi Cheiko, I agree with you that people should be free to move and live around the world if they feel so. I have the feeling that this was "the plan" that God and Goddess had for us in the beginning and still has for us. We are the ones who have to make it happen by putting out positive energy to make positive change. Doesn't positive energy spark more than negative? The way to change the world is to HONESTLY dive into her and help our fellow beings to succeed. We need to search our hearts to know which way for us to go in our efforts. When my youngest two sons are out in the world and on their own, I will be teaching the power of POSITIVE HONESTY somewhere -- perhaps China. Something tells me that you will be teaching the positive side, too. :-) (How are you doing with your "darker spirited" student?) Love and warm light to you, Lainee Hi Cheiko,

I agree with you that people should be free to move and live around the world if they feel so. I have the feeling that this was “the plan” that God and Goddess had for us in the beginning and still has for us. We are the ones who have to make it happen by putting out positive energy to make positive change. Doesn’t positive energy spark more than negative? The way to change the world is to HONESTLY dive into her and help our fellow beings to succeed. We need to search our hearts to know which way for us to go in our efforts. When my youngest two sons are out in the world and on their own, I will be teaching the power of POSITIVE HONESTY somewhere — perhaps China. Something tells me that you will be teaching the positive side, too. :-) (How are you doing with your “darker spirited” student?)

Love and warm light to you,
Lainee

]]> By: Tarek http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531950 Tarek Fri, 11 Dec 2009 05:11:54 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531950 Dear Theresa, Thank you for your response, You are absolutely right I heard about how bad the the thing in Egypt and sadly, in many other Muslim countries. But as I wrote above I think Europe have to set the example of human rights and use at pretext to discriminate against its own minorities. For Damascus issue the Churches in the new city parts are large and have their own structure. It was in the old city were they shared the space more than 1000 years ago and I always found mesmerizing when the call for preyers and the sound of the church bells mixed together in Sundays.. In fact I can say safely that there is not so many places in the world were Christians and Muslims are living in peace and tolerance like in Damascus (Europe can learn lots about this particular issue from there) one can go there and see that personally.. So, I felt that it is not fair to state only bad examples though they exists and sadly maybe they represent the majority I wanted to that light exists and it works somewhere in the world. Love to everybody. Dear Theresa,
Thank you for your response,
You are absolutely right I heard about how bad the the thing in Egypt and sadly, in many other Muslim countries. But as I wrote above I think Europe have to set the example of human rights and use at pretext to discriminate against its own minorities.
For Damascus issue the Churches in the new city parts are large and have their own structure. It was in the old city were they shared the space more than 1000 years ago and I always found mesmerizing when the call for preyers and the sound of the church bells mixed together in Sundays..
In fact I can say safely that there is not so many places in the world were Christians and Muslims are living in peace and tolerance like in Damascus (Europe can learn lots about this particular issue from there) one can go there and see that personally..
So, I felt that it is not fair to state only bad examples though they exists and sadly maybe they represent the majority I wanted to that light exists and it works somewhere in the world.
Love to everybody.

]]> By: Sandra http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531943 Sandra Fri, 11 Dec 2009 02:51:39 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531943 "There are other explanations for the widespread unease with Islam: its frequent association with jihad and terrorism; the demands by Muslims for special considerations that go against the European norm, such as segregation by gender at public swimming pools; practices like polygamy, which is illegal in many Western countries; and a sense that some Muslims do not value, or even repudiate, values that are at the core of European civilization, such as free speech and the separation of church and state. None of these issues has anything to do with minarets . . ." So is the writer saying the minarets are a ruse hiding the very serious concerns listed in the first paragraph? The minaret gambit may be weak, but so is his argument against it. Paul responded well to this above. Fundamentalist religion is frightening in all its forms. Fundamentalist Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. Rather than arguing about architecture, we should be discussing why that particular religion is being embraced, and by which populations. People seek solutions to real problems. The solutions may not always be to "our" liking. “There are other explanations for the widespread unease with Islam: its frequent association with jihad and terrorism; the demands by Muslims for special considerations that go against the European norm, such as segregation by gender at public swimming pools; practices like polygamy, which is illegal in many Western countries; and a sense that some Muslims do not value, or even repudiate, values that are at the core of European civilization, such as free speech and the separation of church and state.

None of these issues has anything to do with minarets . . .”

So is the writer saying the minarets are a ruse hiding the very serious concerns listed in the first paragraph?

The minaret gambit may be weak, but so is his argument against it. Paul responded well to this above.

Fundamentalist religion is frightening in all its forms.

Fundamentalist Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth.

Rather than arguing about architecture, we should be discussing why that particular religion is being embraced, and by which populations. People seek solutions to real problems. The solutions may not always be to “our” liking.

]]> By: Dances With Crayons http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531938 Dances With Crayons Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:38:41 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531938 Dear Paulo, I read the article just before sleep - it was preterbing - and then, instead of a nightmare, had a beautiful dream. Just finished reading 'One' by Richard Bach and found these quotes rippling: " I gave my life to become the person I am right now. Was it worth it? " " Hate is love, without the facts. " " What you hold in your heart shall be true, and what most you admire, that shall you become. " Feeling grateful to have spent this year educating myself. Feeling grateful to old friends, new friends and those yet to become loving friends. Thankful to Rumi's writings. Likewise, grateful to Karen Armstrong for helpful books and also, her group called 'Charter For Compassion'. Feeling very excited about this, and proud to be a member! Despite endless invitations from the media to feel otherwise, I will not fill my heart or mind with hatred or fear toward anyone, simply because of their choice of religion or geographic location and am ever so grateful for the same respect in return. Thinking as well about Jesus, a revolutionary and a dreamer. A heart FULL of Love to All, Jane : ) xo Dear Paulo,

I read the article just before sleep – it was preterbing – and then, instead of a nightmare, had a beautiful dream.

Just finished reading ‘One’ by Richard Bach and found these quotes rippling:
” I gave my life to become the person I am right now. Was it worth it? ”
” Hate is love, without the facts. ”
” What you hold in your heart shall be true, and what most you admire, that shall you become. ”

Feeling grateful to have spent this year educating myself. Feeling grateful to old friends, new friends and those yet to become loving friends.

Thankful to Rumi’s writings. Likewise, grateful to Karen Armstrong for helpful books and also, her group called ‘Charter For Compassion’. Feeling very excited about this, and proud to be a member!

Despite endless invitations from the media to feel otherwise, I will not fill my heart or mind with hatred or fear toward anyone, simply because of their choice of religion or geographic location and am ever so grateful for the same respect in return.

Thinking as well about Jesus, a revolutionary and a dreamer.

A heart FULL of Love to All, Jane : ) xo

]]> By: sara http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531937 sara Fri, 11 Dec 2009 01:04:19 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531937 A Muslim point of view ... I think that the most disturbing thing about this is not the referendum itself but the poster they used !! Let them ban minarets its their country but not with that "offensive" poster which shows minarets as missiles next to a veiled woman. It rises haters and racism and links terrorism to Islam. A Muslim point of view …
I think that the most disturbing thing about this is not the referendum itself but the poster they used !!
Let them ban minarets its their country but not with that “offensive” poster which shows minarets as missiles next to a veiled woman. It rises haters and racism and links terrorism to Islam.

]]> By: RS http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531935 RS Fri, 11 Dec 2009 00:18:14 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531935 where is the other article..the first one? been removed?? first u twitt about that...then u change or remove it? second point: you seem all to confuse minarets with mosques... there is no ban on mosque building in Switzerland. stop that surreal discussion about swiss racism where is the other article..the first one? been removed??
first u twitt about that…then u change or remove it?

second point: you seem all to confuse minarets with mosques…
there is no ban on mosque building in Switzerland.
stop that surreal discussion about swiss racism

]]> By: Nariman http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531926 Nariman Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:02:30 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531926 in my opinion this kind of events usually happen as a camouflage to some kind of political or economical crisis, and this is because they know that religion is the thing that moves people the most, participants or non participants as they were. religion is and always will be the main gossip subject for society and this is because they can never be sure about anything concerning the subject. well, this is what I think, doesnt have to be true in my opinion this kind of events usually happen as a camouflage to some kind of political or economical crisis, and this is because they know that religion is the thing that moves people the most, participants or non participants as they were. religion is and always will be the main gossip subject for society and this is because they can never be sure about anything concerning the subject.
well, this is what I think, doesnt have to be true

]]> By: Theresa Goubran-Keshta http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531893 Theresa Goubran-Keshta Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:46:57 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531893 Dear Tarek, Thank you for your interesting perpective.I would just like to comment on a couple of things you said: "....if you have been in Damascas we'll see that sometimes there is a Mosque and a Church in the same building....and they have no restrictions in building new churches." Two of my friends happen to be the wives of Coptic Orthodox priests here in Egypt. Their husbands tell me that it is extremely difficult to get permission to build a Church here. If they do manage to get the permission, then the Muslims build a Mosque right next to the Church, and I think with the biggest minaret available! So if you look around the city, you will never find a Church without a Mosque, but you will find plenty of Mosques without Churches. Personally, this doesn't bother me that much, but some members of the established Orthodox Church are angry, and I think we could forgive them for calling this behaviour "fanatic"! All the best, Theresa Dear Tarek,

Thank you for your interesting perpective.I would just like to comment on a couple of things you said:

“….if you have been in Damascas we’ll see that sometimes there is a Mosque and a Church in the same building….and they have no restrictions in building new churches.”

Two of my friends happen to be the wives of Coptic Orthodox priests here in Egypt. Their husbands tell me that it is extremely difficult to get permission to build a Church here. If they do manage to get the permission, then the Muslims build a Mosque right next to the Church, and I think with the biggest minaret available! So if you look around the city, you will never find a Church without a Mosque, but you will find plenty of Mosques without Churches.

Personally, this doesn’t bother me that much, but some members of the established Orthodox Church are angry, and I think we could forgive them for calling this behaviour “fanatic”!

All the best, Theresa

]]> By: Pandora http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531813 Pandora Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:58:56 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531813 I don't understand what good can possibly be achieved by this ban, building regulations already are in place so there is no need for this ridiculous hype, why create such a negative political stance.... Glad I don't live there! I don’t understand what good can possibly be achieved by this ban, building regulations already are in place so there is no need for this ridiculous hype, why create such a negative political stance….

Glad I don’t live there!

]]> By: Pandora http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531810 Pandora Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:54:25 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531810 Dear Paul "This world will never be just.... let's just face face it!" I disagree, NEVER is too strong a word, when you are talking about the world, things that were thought of as impossible, became possible... things that are not possible now, will be come possible and be realised. Do not give up Hope. Lots of love Pandora Dear Paul

“This world will never be just…. let’s just face face it!”

I disagree, NEVER is too strong a word, when you are talking about the world, things that were thought of as impossible, became possible… things that are not possible now, will be come possible and be realised.

Do not give up Hope.

Lots of love
Pandora

]]> By: Pandora http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531802 Pandora Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:19:25 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531802 Dear Catherine I read that there are only four in Switzerland.... not many.... at... all! I fail to understand this vote, which is being implemented by the far right. Pandora Dear Catherine

I read that there are only four in Switzerland…. not many…. at… all!

I fail to understand this vote, which is being implemented by the far right.

Pandora

]]> By: Gabriela Abalo http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531799 Gabriela Abalo Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:58:54 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531799 The other day while surfing the net I read: “The state of the world is a reflection of our collective conversation. To change the world lets improve the quality of our conversation”. A very simple and brilliant expression that describes the cause of the several conflicts humanity is facing today. Ineffective communication is directly related to the absence of tolerance and an open-minded approach, where there is a tendency to disregard anything that is not in agreement with specifics beliefs or values. People react to different opinions, cultures, customs, religions and ideas with antagonism in a desperate attempt to shut down anything dissimilar to what they believe to be right. The human need to establish what is right or wrong is where the key of the matter truly lies as it settles nations and people apart. But, what determines what is right and wrong? Which principles should be used to establish that conclusion: yours or mine? If you are right then I’m wrong? If it’s not black then it’s white? There is right and wrong? It has to be that way or can we meet half way? True communication realizes when both parties meet half way, listening and respecting what both have to express. As a French philosopher once said: “I totally disagree with everything you said but I will defend with my life your right to say it!” When we meet half way we don’t pinpoint or judge as we are embracing things for what they are instead of trying to change them to meet our line of thoughts. If societies, communities, religions, political parties, etc stop having monologues and start having “conversations” we will definitely see a different state of the world. But then again, as Gandhi said: “You must be the change that you wish to see in the world”, so there we are… if you want the world to change, begin by changing your communication approach: stop having monologues and be ready to meet half way! An extract from my blog, which I think goes in line with this post. loveNlight Gabi The other day while surfing the net I read: “The state of the world is a reflection of our collective conversation. To change the world lets improve the quality of our conversation”. A very simple and brilliant expression that describes the cause of the several conflicts humanity is facing today.
Ineffective communication is directly related to the absence of tolerance and an open-minded approach, where there is a tendency to disregard anything that is not in agreement with specifics beliefs or values. People react to different opinions, cultures, customs, religions and ideas with antagonism in a desperate attempt to shut down anything dissimilar to what they believe to be right. The human need to establish what is right or wrong is where the key of the matter truly lies as it settles nations and people apart.
But, what determines what is right and wrong? Which principles should be used to establish that conclusion: yours or mine? If you are right then I’m wrong? If it’s not black then it’s white?
There is right and wrong? It has to be that way or can we meet half way?
True communication realizes when both parties meet half way, listening and respecting what both have to express. As a French philosopher once said: “I totally disagree with everything you said but I will defend with my life your right to say it!”
When we meet half way we don’t pinpoint or judge as we are embracing things for what they are instead of trying to change them to meet our line of thoughts. If societies, communities, religions, political parties, etc stop having monologues and start having “conversations” we will definitely see a different state of the world. But then again, as Gandhi said: “You must be the change that you wish to see in the world”, so there we are… if you want the world to change, begin by changing your communication approach: stop having monologues and be ready to meet half way!

An extract from my blog, which I think goes in line with this post.
loveNlight
Gabi

]]> By: Tarek http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531796 Tarek Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:29:31 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531796 Dear Paul, You are right this is one of the most used arguments here in Austria and maybe in Europe! But I thing it is wrong for several reasons: Firs, I agree with you that in lots (but not all) of Muslim countries there is no religious freedom (or any other kind of freedom) but hey I think it very bad for us as self described civilized and democratic countries to compare our selfs with Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, or any other countries that We label as having no human rights! We have to set the good example aren't we? Any way I think it is so sad to see that country like Switzerland or Austria or Germany sets its minorities rights in comparison to Saudi Arabia. Second, there are some countries with Muslim majority where Christians and Muslims are living equally, if you have been in Damascus we'll see that sometimes in the same building there is a Mosque and a Church (especially in the old city) and that churches there ring there bells each Sunday like in Europe and have no restrictions in building new churches. So, why we look always to the bad example (though it exists)? Yes we still can learn allot of good things even from those who we describe as third world.. One last point, though I know what you meant by the example of Mecca. But Mecca is special case for Muslims it would be like building a Mosque (with a minaret) in the Vatican city.. Love and freedom to everybody whatever and however he believes in.. Dear Paul,
You are right this is one of the most used arguments here in Austria and maybe in Europe! But I thing it is wrong for several reasons:
Firs, I agree with you that in lots (but not all) of Muslim countries there is no religious freedom (or any other kind of freedom) but hey I think it very bad for us as self described civilized and democratic countries to compare our selfs with Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, or any other countries that We label as having no human rights! We have to set the good example aren’t we? Any way I think it is so sad to see that country like Switzerland or Austria or Germany sets its minorities rights in comparison to Saudi Arabia.
Second, there are some countries with Muslim majority where Christians and Muslims are living equally, if you have been in Damascus we’ll see that sometimes in the same building there is a Mosque and a Church (especially in the old city) and that churches there ring there bells each Sunday like in Europe and have no restrictions in building new churches. So, why we look always to the bad example (though it exists)? Yes we still can learn allot of good things even from those who we describe as third world..
One last point, though I know what you meant by the example of Mecca.
But Mecca is special case for Muslims it would be like building a Mosque (with a minaret) in the Vatican city..
Love and freedom to everybody whatever and however he believes in..

]]> By: Omnia http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531795 Omnia Thu, 10 Dec 2009 09:16:47 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531795 @ Tarek, thanks... I agree with you. I belive to change the world; I have to look at myself first and start that change. Mind my own -ve sides, work on it, and definitely it will be reflected someday somehow on others and the world accordingly positively. I have a question also, I need to know what is the sever damage, harm, or whatever the minarets are causing there?!!!!!!! Is just everything is doing great in Swizerland and the only thing left to be amended is the minaret? @ Tarek, thanks… I agree with you.
I belive to change the world; I have to look at myself first and start that change. Mind my own -ve sides, work on it, and definitely it will be reflected someday somehow on others and the world accordingly positively.
I have a question also, I need to know what is the sever damage, harm, or whatever the minarets are causing there?!!!!!!!
Is just everything is doing great in Swizerland and the only thing left to be amended is the minaret?

]]> By: jacky http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531790 jacky Thu, 10 Dec 2009 08:25:59 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531790 hy everyone...i dont know what to say i live in switzerland zurich, i travelled a lot also in muslim countries and i never had problems as i am christian.. we have already 1 minarette in zurich and we never had problems bc the muezzin its not allowed to pray there is it just a symbol.. we have a lot of moschees nobody tells something about.. i think a lot of swiss people has fear that in every second corner could be a minaret in about 10 years..nobody know..but for me i think the whole initiative was wrong... the mad it in a wrong way.. i never had problem with muslems i have a lot of friends from turkey egypt etc. and a lot of them told me for them the minarett is not important.. they are happy that they could live in switzerland has a job and earn good money... it was also the wrong time to vote for this (bc we have 2 hostage in lybia since 500 days) swiss people are scared...i hope everything will find a peacefull end bc i am tired about the whole disscussion... let bill minarets but with controll..and be respectfull to each other... thats the only message i could tell.. ps it is also not the answer that a german militant muslem comes to switzerland and makes protest...i hope that this dont will be end in a "war" of militants personns... hy everyone…i dont know what to say i live in switzerland zurich, i travelled a lot also in muslim countries and i never had problems as i am christian.. we have already 1 minarette in zurich and we never had problems bc the muezzin its not allowed to pray there is it just a symbol.. we have a lot of moschees nobody tells something about.. i think a lot of swiss people has fear that in every second corner could be a minaret in about 10 years..nobody know..but for me i think the whole initiative was wrong… the mad it in a wrong way.. i never had problem with muslems i have a lot of friends from turkey egypt etc. and a lot of them told me for them the minarett is not important.. they are happy that they could live in switzerland has a job and earn good money… it was also the wrong time to vote for this (bc we have 2 hostage in lybia since 500 days) swiss people are scared…i hope everything will find a peacefull end bc i am tired about the whole disscussion… let bill minarets but with controll..and be respectfull to each other… thats the only message i could tell..
ps it is also not the answer that a german militant muslem comes to switzerland and makes protest…i hope that this dont will be end in a “war” of militants personns…

]]> By: Carolena Sabah http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531787 Carolena Sabah Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:43:13 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531787 Very interesting article! Thank you Paulo for posting this! Here we have again, power struggles, rules, politics and law, in the name of religion... None of us really know what exactly is going on behind closed doors. Why are we so scared of each other? ah... a pointless question. I remember when I traveled to India, the first morning I was in Bombay, I was woken up to sounds of chanting and prayer. It must have been about 5am. just at the break of dawn when it's still dark, but the light starts illuminating through. I woke up a bit startled as I didn't know what was happening. From my window, I could see the mountains and the city, still quiet and asleep, but the sounds of the prayers were... so magical. I couldn't see where it was coming from yet it was haunting, mesmerizing, echoing through the mountains, singing through the trees, filling and permeating everything, the mountains and all of the city, even myself, I felt a subtle yet intense connection to everything. It was Beautiful! I wish Love upon the blue planet! ~C. Very interesting article! Thank you Paulo for posting this!
Here we have again, power struggles, rules, politics and law, in the name of religion… None of us really know what exactly is going on behind closed doors. Why are we so scared of each other? ah… a pointless question.

I remember when I traveled to India, the first morning I was in Bombay, I was woken up to sounds of chanting and prayer. It must have been about 5am. just at the break of dawn when it’s still dark, but the light starts illuminating through. I woke up a bit startled as I didn’t know what was happening. From my window, I could see the mountains and the city, still quiet and asleep, but the sounds of the prayers were… so magical. I couldn’t see where it was coming from yet it was haunting, mesmerizing, echoing through the mountains, singing through the trees, filling and permeating everything, the mountains and all of the city, even myself, I felt a subtle yet intense connection to everything. It was Beautiful!

I wish Love upon the blue planet!
~C.

]]> By: Hicham Maged http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531783 Hicham Maged Thu, 10 Dec 2009 07:15:58 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531783 Thanks for posting the link dear Paulo. This referendum -from my point of view- was not about 'minarets' themselves but what they represent as the voters think and the circumstances involved this voting which lead portion of Swiss to vote for banning. If any body is interested, he/she can check my post regarding this over my blog. Anyway, I am wondering where the world is heading to; people are calling for better understanding but it seems the opposite is happening and here I do not mean Muslims only but all people in the matter of fact. Thanks for posting the link dear Paulo.

This referendum -from my point of view- was not about ‘minarets’ themselves but what they represent as the voters think and the circumstances involved this voting which lead portion of Swiss to vote for banning. If any body is interested, he/she can check my post regarding this over my blog.

Anyway, I am wondering where the world is heading to; people are calling for better understanding but it seems the opposite is happening and here I do not mean Muslims only but all people in the matter of fact.

]]> By: chieko http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531776 chieko Thu, 10 Dec 2009 03:17:41 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531776 sorry for commenting something off the topic but i just wanted to talk about migration/emigration. we are free to move and live around. but some people leave country just because of lack of job. while some people are working outside the other people should take care of their country to rebuild it. otherwise nothing seems to improve. some of those countries were once flourished in the past. i just wonder what happened to those famous poets, artists, and great leaders. i do not like naming real names here but i think china is doing good. they welcome those unprivileged people in china and educate them and return them to their countries to rebuild so that they can be independent. (actually i was moved by a chinese, working at a factory, who said in a interview that his purpose is to serve every unprivileged people in the world.) so my point is that we are here to serve each other, maybe to inspire each other, and i do not want to hear this kind of issue any more. thanks for reading. love sorry for commenting something off the topic but i just wanted to talk about migration/emigration.
we are free to move and live around. but some people leave country just because of lack of job. while some people are working outside the other people should take care of their country to rebuild it. otherwise nothing seems to improve. some of those countries were once flourished in the past. i just wonder what happened to those famous poets, artists, and great leaders.
i do not like naming real names here but i think china is doing good. they welcome those unprivileged people in china and educate them and return them to their countries to rebuild so that they can be independent. (actually i was moved by a chinese, working at a factory, who said in a interview that his purpose is to serve every unprivileged people in the world.)
so my point is that we are here to serve each other, maybe to inspire each other, and i do not want to hear this kind of issue any more. thanks for reading.
love

]]> By: Kathleen.A http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531773 Kathleen.A Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:42:36 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531773 So they are not allowing Minarets but still allowing Mosques? So then it is not so much a problem about Muslims living among them then - more wanting a limit on the architectural stuctures? It would be a problem if like in Saudi Arabia they don't allow churches of other faiths to be built. So they are not allowing Minarets but still allowing Mosques? So then it is not so much a problem about Muslims living among them then – more wanting a limit on the architectural stuctures? It would be a problem if like in Saudi Arabia they don’t allow churches of other faiths to be built.

]]> By: Theresa Goubran-Keshta http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-/#comment-531771 Theresa Goubran-Keshta Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:18:09 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531771 Thank you for your reply, dear Annie. What you say is very true; we should give to others the same freedom we expect from them. Mutual respect at all times.. Love, Theresa Thank you for your reply, dear Annie.
What you say is very true; we should give to others the same freedom we expect from them. Mutual respect at all times..
Love, Theresa

]]> By: Theresa Goubran-Keshta http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531770 Theresa Goubran-Keshta Thu, 10 Dec 2009 01:10:47 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531770 Dear Mary, Thank you for your interesting comments. I totally agree with you that we should "respect the customs of the country we are in." As many know, I have lived in Egypt for 35 years and have kept my English Nationality and my religious beliefs(Catholic). Since the beginning, I have tried to adopt the Egyptian life-style and always tried to dress appropriately, but not wearing the veil, even Mrs Suzanne Moubarek, the President's wife, doesn't wear it! Most of my neighbours, colleagues and friends are Muslim and I know they respect me for who I am, including my Nationality and my religion. In all these years, I have NEVER experienced any kind of discrimination against me. Like you, Mary, my motto is "Live and let live"! God bless you, Theresa Dear Mary,

Thank you for your interesting comments. I totally agree with you that we should “respect the customs of the country we are in.”

As many know, I have lived in Egypt for 35 years and have kept my English Nationality and my religious beliefs(Catholic). Since the beginning, I have tried to adopt the Egyptian life-style and always tried to dress appropriately, but not wearing the veil, even Mrs Suzanne Moubarek, the President’s wife, doesn’t wear it! Most of my neighbours, colleagues and friends are Muslim and I know they respect me for who I am, including my Nationality and my religion. In all these years, I have NEVER experienced any kind of discrimination against me. Like you, Mary, my motto is “Live and let live”!

God bless you, Theresa

]]> By: elaine http://paulocoelhoblog.com/2009/12/09/minarets-and-slender-arguments/comment-page-1/#comment-531764 elaine Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:56:22 +0000 http://paulocoelhoblog.com/?p=41830#comment-531764 Great question, Monica. Great question, Monica.

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